Basic Movement
If you've ever played a Fighting Game before, just skip this page, trust me. But this will be brief in case you read it anyhow. The three basic movement options that are given to a character in almost every fighting game created are the ability to Walk forward or backwards (by hitting Towards or Back), to Crouch (by hitting any of the three Down positions on the joystick), or to Jump in any of three directions (Up for a straight up Jump, Back Flip to jump backwards, or Forward Flip to jump forward). These are the three absolute most basic actions given to a character.
Walk Speed Comparison
Of course, every character walks with different speeds in the game. Below are the movement speeds for each character in USF4 for both walking forward and walking backwards. The numbers below are internal distances used by the game, in distance per frame. The movement per frame is fixed, so there is no acceleration, although characters must walk forward for at least two frames before any distance is covered (i.e. walking for one frame does not actually move the character).
Below are the speeds for every character. As a reference, the stage is 15.0 units wide, and the characters start 3.0 units apart at the beginning of the round.
| Character Name | Forward Walk Speed | Back Walk Speed | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Abel | 0.035 | 0.030 | |
| Adon | 0.050 | 0.035 | |
| Akuma | 0.055 | 0.040 | |
| Balrog | 0.050 | 0.040 | |
| Blanka | 0.050 | 0.045 | |
| C. Viper | 0.050 | 0.035 | |
| Cammy | 0.055 | 0.045 | |
| Chun Li | 0.055 | 0.045 | |
| Cody | 0.0425 | 0.024 | |
| Dan | 0.040 | 0.030 | |
| Decapre | 0.055 | 0.045 | |
| Dee Jay | 0.055 | 0.040 | |
| Dhalsim | 0.025 | 0.020 | |
| Dudley | 0.050 | 0.040 | |
| E. Honda | 0.045 | 0.030 | |
| El Fuerte | 0.048 | 0.043 | |
| Elena | 0.045 | 0.03825 | |
| Evil Ryu | 0.050 | 0.040 | |
| Fei Long | 0.045 | 0.030 | |
| Gen (Mantis) | 0.045 | 0.030 | |
| Gen (Crane) | 0.055 | 0.045 | |
| Gouken | 0.045 | 0.030 | |
| Guile | 0.050 | 0.040 | |
| Guy | 0.0495 | 0.0385 | |
| Hakan | 0.030 | 0.030 | |
| Hugo | 0.022 | 0.018 | |
| Ibuki | 0.045 | 0.03125 | |
| Juri | 0.035 | 0.030 | |
| Ken | 0.046 | 0.0345 | |
| M. Bison | 0.055 | 0.040 | |
| Makoto | 0.020 | 0.015 | |
| Oni | 0.040 | 0.040 | |
| Poison | 0.040 | 0.030 | |
| Rolento | 0.035 | 0.030 | |
| Rose | 0.045 | 0.035 | |
| Rufus | 0.045 | 0.030 | |
| Ryu | 0.045 | 0.030 | |
| Sagat | 0.024 | 0.020 | |
| Sakura | 0.050 | 0.035 | |
| Seth | 0.025 | 0.020 | |
| T. Hawk | 0.0341 | 0.030 | |
| Vega | 0.055 | 0.050 | |
| Yang | 0.057 | 0.040 | |
| Yun | 0.050 | 0.035 | |
| Zangief | 0.035 | 0.030 | |
Note: Omega SF4 walkspeeds are the same, with the following exceptions:
- Cody: 0.038 Forward
- Gen (Mantis): 0.055 Forward, 0.040 Back
- Gen (Crane): 0.035 Forward, 0.025 Back
- Guy: 0.045 Forward, 0.035 Back
- Ibuki: 0.053 Forward, 0.040 Back
- Ken: 0.045 Forward, 0.030 Back
- Seth: 0.045 Forward, 0.035 Back
- T. Hawk: 0.031 Forward
- Yang: 0.054 Forward
- Zangief: 0.031 Forward
Forward Dashing
Forward Dashing is mostly useful for positioning, surprise attacks, and just to traverse distances more quickly than walking. During a Forward Dash, all characters are considered grounded. That means all moves that connect against you while Dashing will keep you on the ground so you can be comboed and easily punished.
Forward Dashing Data
USF4 Data
| Character | Total Frames | Distance | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Abel | 16 | 1.42 | |
| Adon | 19 | 1.50 | |
| Akuma | 18 | 1.00 | |
| Balrog | 18 | 1.30 | |
| Blanka | 20 | 1.52 | |
| C. Viper | 19 | 1.30 | |
| Cammy | 18 | 1.43 | |
| Chun Li | 15 | 1.08 | |
| Cody | 18 | 1.10 | |
| Dan | 19 | 1.42 | |
| Decapre | 18 | 1.44 | |
| Dee Jay | 19 | 1.15 | |
| Dhalsim | 32 | 1.80 | |
| Dudley | 19 | 1.35 | |
| E. Honda | 19 | 0.83 | |
| El Fuerte | 16 | 1.10 | |
| Elena | 17 | 1.45 | |
| Evil Ryu | 18 | 1.32 | |
| Fei Long | 17 | 1.15 | |
| Gen (Mantis) | 19 | 1.51 | |
| Gen (Crane) | 19 | 1.51 | |
| Gouken | 16 | 1.10 | |
| Guile | 19 | 1.32 | |
| Guy | 18 | 1.20 | |
| Hakan (Unoiled) | 20 | 1.05 | |
| Hakan (Oiled) | 18 | 1.31 | |
| Hugo | 21 | 1.17 | |
| Ibuki | 18 | 1.70 | |
| Juri | 19 | 1.41 | |
| Ken | 18 | 1.10 | |
| M. Bison | 17 | 1.59 | |
| Makoto | 16 | 1.78 | |
| Oni | 18 | 1.10 | |
| Poison | 17 | 1.01 | |
| Rolento | 18 | 1.33 | |
| Rose | 20 | 1.65 | |
| Rufus | 20 | 1.14 | |
| Ryu | 18 | 1.10 | |
| Sagat | 18 | 1.10 | |
| Sakura | 18 | 1.05 | |
| Seth | 18 | 1.35 | |
| T. Hawk | 23 | 1.10 | |
| Vega | 20 | 1.25 | |
| Yang | 18 | 1.45 | |
| Yun | 18 | 1.53 | |
| Zangief | 26 | 0.88 | |
- Distance units calculated using Frame Trapped for SFIV
- Some dash distances vary depending on whether or not a button/direction is input at the end of the animation
- For these characters, the listed dash distance assumes the player inputs something after the dash, as that is the most common real-world scenario
Omega SF4 Data
| Character | Total Frames | Distance | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Ω Abel | 14 | 1.33 | |
| Ω Adon | 16 | 1.49 | |
| Ω Akuma | 16 | 1.05 | |
| Ω Balrog | 14 | 1.30 | |
| Ω Blanka | 18 | 1.66 | |
| Ω C. Viper | 16 | 1.45 | |
| Ω Cammy | 16 | 1.38 | |
| Ω Chun Li | 13 | 1.07 | |
| Ω Cody | 16 | 1.11 | |
| Ω Dan | 18 | 1.46 | |
| Ω Decapre | 16 | 1.40 | |
| Ω Dee Jay | 16 | 1.15 | |
| Ω Dhalsim | 21 | 1.12 | |
| Ω Dudley | 14 | 1.33 | |
| Ω E. Honda | 16 | 0.83 | |
| Ω El Fuerte | 14 | 0.94 | |
| Ω Elena | 16 | 1.42 | |
| Ω Evil Ryu | 15 | 1.35 | |
| Ω Fei Long | 14 | 1.17 | |
| Ω Gen (Mantis) | 15 | 1.39 | |
| Ω Gen (Crane) | 19 | 1.51 | |
| Ω Gouken | 14 | 1.06 | |
| Ω Guile | 15 | 1.32 | |
| Ω Guy | 15 | 1.28 | |
| Ω Hakan (Unoiled) | 16 | 0.95 | |
| Ω Hakan (Oiled) | 18 | 1.25 | |
| Ω Hugo | 25 | 1.31 | |
| Ω Ibuki | 15 | 1.66 | |
| Ω Juri | 15 | 1.54 | |
| Ω Juri (U1) | 18 | 1.69 | |
| Ω Ken | 14 | 1.16 | |
| Ω M. Bison | 14 | 1.32 | |
| Ω Makoto | 15 | 1.67 | |
| Ω Makoto (Super) | 19 | 2.11 | |
| Ω Oni | 15 | 1.30 | |
| Ω Poison | 17 | 1.07 | |
| Ω Rolento | 17 | 1.30 | |
| Ω Rose | 17 | 1.65 | |
| Ω Rufus | 16 | 1.09 | |
| Ω Ryu | 14 | 1.16 | |
| Ω Sagat | 16 | 1.12 | |
| Ω Sakura | 14 | 1.13 | |
| Ω Seth | 15 | 1.05 | |
| Ω T. Hawk | 18 | 1.11 | |
| Ω Vega | 15 | 1.67 | |
| Ω Yang | 15 | 1.39 | |
| Ω Yun | 16 | 1.42 | |
| Ω Zangief | 26 | 0.91 | |
- Distance units calculated using Frame Trapped for SFIV
- With few exceptions, dashes out of Focus Attack are generally unchanged from USF4
- Some dash distances vary depending on whether or not a button/direction is input at the end of the animation
- For these characters, the listed dash distance assumes the player inputs something after the dash, as that is the most common real-world scenario
Back Dashing
Back Dashing is a very defensive maneuver thanks to the inclusion of invincibility frames in everyone's Back Dashes. Though the number of invincible frames generally only number around 8, it's still enough to be useful to escape a lot of situations and attacks, as every Back Dash is invincible starting from the very first frame. Not only that, but the first few vulnerable frames after a Back Dash for the majority of the characters are considered airborne, so even if you get hit out of the first few vulnerable frames, you'll be popped into the air so it's much harder to punish with combos.
However, even though you are considered airborne during those frames, you can still be hit by moves that normally miss against airborne opponents. If someone Sweeps you with Ryu's Crouching Hard Kick, for example, as you are in your airborne frames, you'll still be hit and get sent to the floor as usual.
After those airborne frames run out, you will have some vulnerable frames where you are grounded, so if the opponent times it properly and hits you at the tail end of your Back Dash, they can hit you on the ground and execute a full grounded punish combo.
Back Dashing Data
| Character | Total Frames | Distance | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Abel | 25 | 0.75 | |
| Adon | 22 | 0.75 | |
| Akuma | 25 | 0.90 | |
| Balrog | 24 | 1.20 | |
| Blanka | 26 | 1.20 | |
| C. Viper | 27 | 1.25 | |
| Cammy | 22 | 1.40 | |
| Chun Li | 22 | 1.30 | |
| Cody | 26 | 0.85 | |
| Dan | 26 | 1.40 | |
| Decapre | 22 | 1.40 | |
| Dee Jay | 27 | 0.90 | |
| Dhalsim | 29 | 1.43 | |
| Dudley | 25 | 1.14 | |
| E. Honda | 27 | 0.90 | |
| El Fuerte | 19 | 0.76 | |
| Elena | 22 | 1.35 | |
| Evil Ryu | 28 | 1.20 | |
| Fei Long | 26 | 1.25 | |
| Gen (Mantis) | 27 | 1.38 | |
| Gen (Crane) | 27 | 1.38 | |
| Gouken | 25 | 0.80 | |
| Guile | 26 | 0.98 | |
| Guy | 26 | 1.20 | |
| Hakan | 27 | 0.65 | |
| Hakan (Oiled) | 27 | 1.49 | |
| Hugo | 30 | 1.04 | |
| Ibuki | 28 | 1.57 | |
| Juri | 27 | 1.20 | |
| Ken | 27 | 0.75 | |
| M. Bison | 25 | 1.00 | |
| Makoto | 27 | 1.32 | |
| Oni | 27 | 0.90 | |
| Poison | 22 | 1.21 | |
| Rolento | 27 | 0.82 | |
| Rose | 22 | 1.23 | |
| Rufus | 27 | 0.94 | |
| Ryu | 27 | 0.75 | |
| Sagat | 29 | 0.98 | |
| Sakura | 26 | 0.95 | |
| Seth | 25 | 1.30 | |
| T. Hawk | 26 | 0.80 | |
| Vega | 22 | 1.20 | |
| Yang | 27 | 1.45 | |
| Yun | 27 | 1.43 | |
| Zangief | 26 | 0.80 | |
- Distance units calculated using Frame Trapped for SFIV
- Some dash distances vary depending on whether or not a button/direction is input at the end of the animation
- For these characters, the listed dash distance assumes the player inputs something after the dash, as that is the most common real-world scenario
Back Dashing Frame Data
Here is the "state" frame data for every character's Back Dash for when they are invincible, vulnerable, airborne, and grounded:
Back Dashing Frame Counts
(Numbers - With Totals In Parentheses)
Now here's a visual chart mapping the Back Dash frames out each frame at a time:
Legend
'-' = First stage frames of pure invulnerability
'^' = Second stage frames of being airborne
'X' = Third stage frames of being grounded
Extra Note
Characters listed in order of the quality of their Back Dash. The criteria by which "Back Dash Quality" is based are:
- The less number of frames you have total, the better.
- The more number of invincible frames you have, the better.
- The less number of grounded frames you have, the better.
Back Dashing Frame Data
---------------------------------------------------------------
| | -- FRAME COUNT -- |
| | 0 1 2 3 |
CHARACTER | TOTALS | 123456789012345678901234567890 |
--------------------------------------------------------------|
El Fuerte | ( 7, 5, 7) | -------^^^^^XXXXXXX |
Vega | ( 8,11, 3) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^XXX |
Chun Li | ( 8,10, 4) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
Elena | ( 8,10, 4) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
Poison | ( 8,10, 4) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
Rose | ( 8,10, 4) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
Cammy | ( 6,11, 5) | ------^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXX |
Decapre | ( 6,11, 5) | ------^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXX |
Adon | ( 8, 7, 8) | --------^^^^^^^XXXXXXXX |
Balrog | ( 8, 9, 7) | --------^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXX |
M. Bison | ( 8, 9, 7) | --------^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXX |
Abel | ( 8,10, 7) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXX |
Akuma | ( 8,10, 7) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXX |
T. Hawk | ( 8,10, 7) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXX |
Dudley | ( 7,11, 7) | -------^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXX |
Gouken | ( 8, 7,10) | --------^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXXX |
Fei Long | ( 8,13, 5) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXX |
Blanka | ( 8,11, 7) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXX |
Guile | ( 8,11, 7) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXX |
Sakura | ( 8,10, 8) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXX |
Guy | ( 8, 8,10) | --------^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXXX |
Zangief | ( 8, 8,10) | --------^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXXX |
Cody | ( 8, 5,13) | --------^^^^^XXXXXXXXXXXXX |
Dan | ( 8, 0,18) | --------XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |
Rufus | ( 8,16, 3) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXX |
Gen (Mantis) | ( 8,15, 4) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
Gen (Crane) | ( 8,15, 4) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
Hakan | ( 8,15, 4) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
Hakan (Oiled) | ( 8,15, 4) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
Yang | ( 8,14, 5) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXX |
Yun | ( 8,14, 5) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXX |
Oni | ( 8,11, 8) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXX |
E. Honda | ( 8,10, 9) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXX |
Juri | ( 8,10, 9) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXX |
Ken | ( 8,10, 9) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXX |
Rolento | ( 8,10, 9) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXX |
Ryu | ( 8,10, 9) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXX |
C. Viper | ( 8, 9,10) | --------^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXXX |
Dee Jay | ( 8, 8,11) | --------^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXXXX |
Makoto | ( 8, 4,15) | --------^^^^XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX |
Ibuki | ( 8,15, 5) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXX |
Seth | ( 8,11, 9) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXX |
Evil Ryu | ( 8, 9,11) | --------^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXXXX |
Sagat | ( 8,15, 6) | --------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXX |
Dhalsim | ( 8,10,11) | --------^^^^^^^^^^XXXXXXXXXXX |
Hugo | ( 9,17, 4) | ---------^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^XXXX |
---------------------------------------------------------------
Movement Frame Data
Here is the movement and jump frame data for Ultra Street Fighter 4.
| Character | Dash | FA 1 | FA 2 | Backdash | Invi | Airborne | Range | Jump | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ryu | 18 | -2 | +4 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 2/7 | 4+36 |
| 2 | Ken | 18 | -2 | +4 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 2/7 | 4+36 |
| 3 | Chun Li | 15 | +1 | +7 | 22 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 6.5/13 | 4+41 |
| 4 | Honda | 19[-1] | -3 | +3 | 27[+2] | 1~8 | 9~18 | 3/8.5 | 4+37 |
| 5 | Blanka | 21 | -5 | +1 | 26 | 1~8 | 9~19 | 1/11.5 | 4+34 |
| 6 | Zangief | 26 | -10 | -4 | 26 | 1~8 | 9~16 | 2.5/7.5 | 6+37 |
| 7 | Guile | 19 | -3 | +3 | 26 | 1~8 | 9~19 | 2.5/10 | 4+36 |
| 8 | Dhalsim | 32 | -16 | -10 | 29 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 4/14 | 3+56 |
| 9 | Balrog | 18 | -2 | +4 | 24 | 1~8 | 9~17 | 5/11.5 | 4+36 |
| 10 | Vega | 20 | -4 | +2 | 22 | 1~8 | 9~19 | 3.5/11.5 | 4+35 |
| 11 | Sagat | 18 | -2 | +4 | 29 | 1~8 | 9~23 | 2.5/10 | 4+36 |
| 12 | M. Bison | 17 | -1 | +5 | 25[-1] | 1~8 | 9~17 | 4/10 | 4+40 |
| 13 | C. Viper | 19 | -3 | +3 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~17 | 6/12 | 4+36 |
| 14 | Rufus | 20 | -4 | +2 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~25 | 1/9.5 | 4+39 |
| 15 | El Fuerte | 16 | +0 | +6 | 19 | 1~7 | 8~12 | 2/7 | 4+39 |
| 16 | Abel | 16 | +0 | +6 | 25 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 3/7 | 4+36 |
| 17 | Seth | 18 | -2 | +4 | 25 | 1~8 | 9~15 | 6/12.5 | 4+36 |
| 18 | Akuma | 18 | -2 | +4 | 25 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 2/8.5 | 4+36 |
| 19 | Gouken | 16 | +0 | +6 | 25 | 1~8 | 9~15 | 0.5/7.5 | 4+36 |
| 20 | Cammy | 18 | -2 | +4 | 22[-1] | 1~6 | 7~17 | 3.5/13.5 | 4+36 |
| 21 | Fei Long | 17 | -1 | +5 | 26 | 1~8 | 9~21 | 3.5/12 | 4+36 |
| 22 | Sakura | 18 | -2 | +4 | 26 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 3.5/9 | 4+36 |
| 23 | Rose | 21 | -5 | +1 | 22 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 7/12 | 4+39 |
| 24.1 | Gen (Mantis) | 19 | -3/+0* | +3 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~23 | 7.5/13 | 4+36 |
| 24.2 | Gen (Crane) | 19 | +0/-3* | +3 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~23 | 7.5/13 | 4+35 |
| 25 | Dan | 19 | -3 | +3 | 26 | 1~8 | 9~24 | 8/14 | 4+36 |
| 26 | T. Hawk | 23 | -7 | -1 | 26[+3] | 1~8 | 9~19 | 3/7.5 | 6+40 |
| 27 | DeeJay | 19 | -3 | +3 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~16 | 7/8.5 | 4+37 |
| 28 | Guy | 18 | -2 | +4 | 26 | 1~8 | 9~16 | 7.5/11.5 | 4+40 |
| 29 | Cody | 18 | -2 | +4 | 26[-3] | 1~8 | 9~13 | 5.5/7 | 4+36 |
| 30 | Ibuki | 18[-1] | -2 | +4 | 28 | 1~8 | 9~23 | 9/15 | 4+39 |
| 31 | Makoto | 16 | +0 | +6 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~13 | 7.5/12.5 | 4+36 |
| 32 | Dudley | 19 | -2 | +3 | 25 | 1~7 | 8~18 | 5.5/11 | 4+36 |
| 33 | Adon | 19 | -3 | +3 | 22 | 1~8 | 9~15 | 1/7 | 4+34 |
| 34.1 | Hakan (Unoiled) | 20 | -4 | +2 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~23 | 1/6 | 5**+37 |
| 34.2 | Hakan (Oiled) | 18 | ~ | ~ | 27 | 1~8 | 9~23 | 1/6 | 5**+37 |
| 35 | Juri | 19[-2] | -3 | +3 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~18 | 3/11.5 | 4+35 |
| 36 | Yun | 18 | -2 | +4 | 27[-4] | 1~8 | 9~22 | 1/14.5 | 4+34 |
| 37 | Yang | 18[-1] | -2 | +4 | 27[-2] | 1~8 | 9~22 | 1/14.5 | 4+34 |
| 38 | Evil Ryu | 18 | -2 | +4 | 28 | 1~8 | 9~17 | 1/10 | 4+36 |
| 39 | Oni | 18 | -2 | +4 | 27[-1] | 1~8 | 9~19 | 1/9 | 4+37 |
| 40 | Elena | 17 | -1 | +5 | 22 | 1~8 | 9~18 | ? | 4+42 |
| 41 | Hugo | 21 | -5 | +1 | 30 | 1~9 | 10~26 | ? | 8+35 |
| 42 | Poison | 17 | -1 | +5 | 22 | 1~8 | 9~18 | ? | 4+39 |
| 43 | Rolento | 18 | -2 | +4 | 27 | 1~8 | 9~18 | ? | 4+36 |
| 44 | Decapre | 18 | -2 | +4 | 22 | 1~6 | 7~17 | ? | 4+36 |
The dash data is the total duration in frames. FA 1 and FA 2 represent the frame advantage after a level 1 and a blocked level 2 focus attack, respectively, when canceled into a forward dash.
What does [-X] mean?
Certain characters can actually cancel the end of their forward or backward dash recovery with special moves, supers, ultras, and focus attacks by [X] frames. So for example, Yun's backdash is normally 27 frames total, but if he buffers an ultra before the end of his backdash, the backdash will end on frame 23, and the ultra will start animating on frame 24.
In the case of E.Honda and T.Hawk, buffering a reversal will actually lengthen their backdash recovery. So if T.Hawk buffers a Mexican Typhoon at the end of his backdash, it will start animating on frame 30 instead of frame 27, and he will not be able to block during the extra recovery frames.
*Gen's FA 1 frame advantage differs on hit/block.
**Hakan only has 4 pre-jump frames when he jumps forward, but has 5 otherwise.
