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=== Overview === | === Overview === | ||
Zangief, like many other grapplers of his type, relies on a patient neutral game of walking and harassing the opponent in neutral with large pokes so that he can then get away with more committal neutral tools such as jump-ins, dashes, Drive Rush, and more. His threatening presence will often lead to opponents ceding ground to him, allowing Zangief to gradually push the opponent towards the corner. Once the opponent has been cornered, Zangief's mixup game becomes significantly more threatening thanks to the addition of Drive Impact wallsplat and meterless throw loops. | Zangief, like many other grapplers of his type, relies on a patient neutral game of walking and harassing the opponent in neutral with large pokes so that he can then get away with more committal neutral tools such as jump-ins, dashes, Drive Rush, and more. His threatening presence will often lead to opponents ceding ground to him, allowing Zangief to gradually push the opponent towards the corner. Once the opponent has been cornered, Zangief's mixup game becomes significantly more threatening thanks to the addition of Drive Impact wallsplat and meterless throw loops. | ||
=== Approaching the Opponent === | === Approaching the Opponent === | ||
One of the greatest challenges Zangief faces is in how he approaches the opponent. He's big, he's slow, and he's somewhat lacking in specialized tools. As a result, his most reliable approach option is to simply walk towards the opponent. While slow, walking poses the least amount of risk and has the lowest opportunity cost, allowing Zangief to better counter anything that opponents throw at him. | One of the greatest challenges Zangief faces is in how he approaches the opponent. He's big, he's slow, and he's somewhat lacking in specialized tools. As a result, his most reliable approach option is to simply walk towards the opponent. While slow, walking poses the least amount of risk and has the lowest opportunity cost, allowing Zangief to better counter anything that opponents throw at him. | ||
Other universal options are of great use to Zangief as well. While his jump and dash don't travel very far, they are still key tools to leverage when trying to get in on the opponent. Use them sparingly to catch the opponent off guard. In addition, Drive Rush is quite useful in the midrange, allowing Zangief to threaten with his 5MP target combo or L SPD at range, building upon the opponent's mental stack. Drive Impact, while risky, is also useful against opponents who try and poke Zangief out. | Other universal options are of great use to Zangief as well. While his jump and dash don't travel very far, they are still key tools to leverage when trying to get in on the opponent. Use them sparingly to catch the opponent off guard. In addition, Drive Rush is quite useful in the midrange, allowing Zangief to threaten with his 5MP target combo or L SPD at range, building upon the opponent's mental stack. Drive Impact, while risky, is also useful against opponents who try and poke Zangief out. | ||
Zangief also has several unique tools to assist in his gameplan: | Zangief also has several unique tools to assist in his gameplan: | ||
Against low pokes, he can utilize 6MK, 3HK, and 6HK to hop over them and punish for varying degrees of reward. 6HK and 3HK are risky to throw out as they are incredibly unsafe, but are quite rewarding on punish counter, especially in the corner. 6MK is a much safer alternative and can be spaced to be plus on block or link into another button on hit. It is also difficult to tell whether the 6MK will hit during its late active frames or whiff entirely, letting Zangief catch an unaware opponent off-guard with a whiffed 6MK into SPD. | Against low pokes, he can utilize 6MK, 3HK, and 6HK to hop over them and punish for varying degrees of reward. 6HK and 3HK are risky to throw out as they are incredibly unsafe, but are quite rewarding on punish counter, especially in the corner. 6MK is a much safer alternative and can be spaced to be plus on block or link into another button on hit. It is also difficult to tell whether the 6MK will hit during its late active frames or whiff entirely, letting Zangief catch an unaware opponent off-guard with a whiffed 6MK into SPD. | ||
Against upper-body pokes, Zangief has 5[HP] and Tundra Storm. 5[HP] is far and away the more useful of the two, allowing Zangief to armor through a single attack during its startup. The move can also be released prematurely to more easily punish attacks, but doing so ends the armor. Tundra Storm, on the other hand, is a unique counter that only works against grounded kick attacks that hit Zangief above the knees. While the parry is out relatively quickly, the horrendous total duration of the attack paired with its underwhelming reward on hit makes it an option that should rarely, if ever, be used. | Against upper-body pokes, Zangief has 5[HP] and Tundra Storm. 5[HP] is far and away the more useful of the two, allowing Zangief to armor through a single attack during its startup. The move can also be released prematurely to more easily punish attacks, but doing so ends the armor. Tundra Storm, on the other hand, is a unique counter that only works against grounded kick attacks that hit Zangief above the knees. While the parry is out relatively quickly, the horrendous total duration of the attack paired with its underwhelming reward on hit makes it an option that should rarely, if ever, be used. | ||
Finally, Zangief has Siberian Express (63124K), a long range grab with two different versions. At the midrange, just under round start distance, Zangief will immediately rush forwards and grab the opponent. While ultimately reactable and extremely punishable on whiff, it can still catch an opponent off guard. The OD version is faster, but the yellow flash makes it easier to react to. From further out, the move changes drastically, gaining significantly increased startup in return for gaining a hit of super armor and increased range. This version is still rather niche, but can be useful in certain matchups, such as against Dhalsim. The OD version has two hits of super armor and has a unique property where it reduces its startup if it armors through a strike (not a projectile!), making it more useful against Dhalsim in particular. | Finally, Zangief has Siberian Express (63124K), a long range grab with two different versions. At the midrange, just under round start distance, Zangief will immediately rush forwards and grab the opponent. While ultimately reactable and extremely punishable on whiff, it can still catch an opponent off guard. The OD version is faster, but the yellow flash makes it easier to react to. From further out, the move changes drastically, gaining significantly increased startup in return for gaining a hit of super armor and increased range. This version is still rather niche, but can be useful in certain matchups, such as against Dhalsim. The OD version has two hits of super armor and has a unique property where it reduces its startup if it armors through a strike (not a projectile!), making it more useful against Dhalsim in particular. | ||
=== Pokes === | === Pokes === | ||
Zangief boasts a good variety of ground pokes, though none stand head-and-shoulders above the rest. | Zangief boasts a good variety of ground pokes, though none stand head-and-shoulders above the rest. | ||
2LK, 2LP, 5LP are all solid, low-commitment pokes, with 2LK being the fastest, 5LP having the most range, and 2LP striking an excellent balance between the two. However, converting off of these at range often requires Drive Rush or a very risky buffered Double Lariat. | 2LK, 2LP, 5LP are all solid, low-commitment pokes, with 2LK being the fastest, 5LP having the most range, and 2LP striking an excellent balance between the two. However, converting off of these at range often requires Drive Rush or a very risky buffered Double Lariat. | ||
At midrange, Zangief's options are somewhat less potent, but useful nonetheless. 5LK and 2MP are both cancellable pokes with decent range, allowing Zangief to check grounded approaches and whiff punish the opponent. Between the two, 2MP is better at checking approaches due to its greater active frames and larger cancel window, while 5LK is a stronger whiff punish due to its faster speed, greater range, and low pushback. 5MP, 5MK, and 2MK are all rather large pokes with identical speed, but none are special cancellable, leaving them vulnerable to Drive Impact. 5MP has the shortest range, but can lead into a target combo on counter hit or as a whiff punish. However, the followups can whiff due to pushback and leave Zangief wide open to punishment. 2MK is not particularly notable outside of being a long-range low, letting Zangief check backwalking opponents with a small chunk of damage or whiff punish at ranges where 5MP would fail. Finally, 5MK has the greatest range, but is ultimately the least useful of the bunch. | At midrange, Zangief's options are somewhat less potent, but useful nonetheless. 5LK and 2MP are both cancellable pokes with decent range, allowing Zangief to check grounded approaches and whiff punish the opponent. Between the two, 2MP is better at checking approaches due to its greater active frames and larger cancel window, while 5LK is a stronger whiff punish due to its faster speed, greater range, and low pushback. 5MP, 5MK, and 2MK are all rather large pokes with identical speed, but none are special cancellable, leaving them vulnerable to Drive Impact. 5MP has the shortest range, but can lead into a target combo on counter hit or as a whiff punish. However, the followups can whiff due to pushback and leave Zangief wide open to punishment. 2MK is not particularly notable outside of being a long-range low, letting Zangief check backwalking opponents with a small chunk of damage or whiff punish at ranges where 5MP would fail. Finally, 5MK has the greatest range, but is ultimately the least useful of the bunch. | ||
At the end of midrange, Zangief has his 5HP and 2HK, both with considerable range. 5HP is quite slow, especially when charged, but is safe to throw out against a grounded opponent. The charged version is notable as it has upper-body armor and improved frame advantage on hit or block, allowing Zangief to armor through an opponent's buttons. 2HK serves a similar purpose to 2MK, but with greater reach, reward, and risk. | At the end of midrange, Zangief has his 5HP and 2HK, both with considerable range. 5HP is quite slow, especially when charged, but is safe to throw out against a grounded opponent. The charged version is notable as it has upper-body armor and improved frame advantage on hit or block, allowing Zangief to armor through an opponent's buttons. 2HK serves a similar purpose to 2MK, but with greater reach, reward, and risk. | ||
Revision as of 20:05, 8 July 2023
Neutral
Overview
Zangief, like many other grapplers of his type, relies on a patient neutral game of walking and harassing the opponent in neutral with large pokes so that he can then get away with more committal neutral tools such as jump-ins, dashes, Drive Rush, and more. His threatening presence will often lead to opponents ceding ground to him, allowing Zangief to gradually push the opponent towards the corner. Once the opponent has been cornered, Zangief's mixup game becomes significantly more threatening thanks to the addition of Drive Impact wallsplat and meterless throw loops.
Approaching the Opponent
One of the greatest challenges Zangief faces is in how he approaches the opponent. He's big, he's slow, and he's somewhat lacking in specialized tools. As a result, his most reliable approach option is to simply walk towards the opponent. While slow, walking poses the least amount of risk and has the lowest opportunity cost, allowing Zangief to better counter anything that opponents throw at him.
Other universal options are of great use to Zangief as well. While his jump and dash don't travel very far, they are still key tools to leverage when trying to get in on the opponent. Use them sparingly to catch the opponent off guard. In addition, Drive Rush is quite useful in the midrange, allowing Zangief to threaten with his 5MP target combo or L SPD at range, building upon the opponent's mental stack. Drive Impact, while risky, is also useful against opponents who try and poke Zangief out.
Zangief also has several unique tools to assist in his gameplan:
Against low pokes, he can utilize 6MK, 3HK, and 6HK to hop over them and punish for varying degrees of reward. 6HK and 3HK are risky to throw out as they are incredibly unsafe, but are quite rewarding on punish counter, especially in the corner. 6MK is a much safer alternative and can be spaced to be plus on block or link into another button on hit. It is also difficult to tell whether the 6MK will hit during its late active frames or whiff entirely, letting Zangief catch an unaware opponent off-guard with a whiffed 6MK into SPD.
Against upper-body pokes, Zangief has 5[HP] and Tundra Storm. 5[HP] is far and away the more useful of the two, allowing Zangief to armor through a single attack during its startup. The move can also be released prematurely to more easily punish attacks, but doing so ends the armor. Tundra Storm, on the other hand, is a unique counter that only works against grounded kick attacks that hit Zangief above the knees. While the parry is out relatively quickly, the horrendous total duration of the attack paired with its underwhelming reward on hit makes it an option that should rarely, if ever, be used.
Finally, Zangief has Siberian Express (63124K), a long range grab with two different versions. At the midrange, just under round start distance, Zangief will immediately rush forwards and grab the opponent. While ultimately reactable and extremely punishable on whiff, it can still catch an opponent off guard. The OD version is faster, but the yellow flash makes it easier to react to. From further out, the move changes drastically, gaining significantly increased startup in return for gaining a hit of super armor and increased range. This version is still rather niche, but can be useful in certain matchups, such as against Dhalsim. The OD version has two hits of super armor and has a unique property where it reduces its startup if it armors through a strike (not a projectile!), making it more useful against Dhalsim in particular.
Pokes
Zangief boasts a good variety of ground pokes, though none stand head-and-shoulders above the rest.
2LK, 2LP, 5LP are all solid, low-commitment pokes, with 2LK being the fastest, 5LP having the most range, and 2LP striking an excellent balance between the two. However, converting off of these at range often requires Drive Rush or a very risky buffered Double Lariat.
At midrange, Zangief's options are somewhat less potent, but useful nonetheless. 5LK and 2MP are both cancellable pokes with decent range, allowing Zangief to check grounded approaches and whiff punish the opponent. Between the two, 2MP is better at checking approaches due to its greater active frames and larger cancel window, while 5LK is a stronger whiff punish due to its faster speed, greater range, and low pushback. 5MP, 5MK, and 2MK are all rather large pokes with identical speed, but none are special cancellable, leaving them vulnerable to Drive Impact. 5MP has the shortest range, but can lead into a target combo on counter hit or as a whiff punish. However, the followups can whiff due to pushback and leave Zangief wide open to punishment. 2MK is not particularly notable outside of being a long-range low, letting Zangief check backwalking opponents with a small chunk of damage or whiff punish at ranges where 5MP would fail. Finally, 5MK has the greatest range, but is ultimately the least useful of the bunch.
At the end of midrange, Zangief has his 5HP and 2HK, both with considerable range. 5HP is quite slow, especially when charged, but is safe to throw out against a grounded opponent. The charged version is notable as it has upper-body armor and improved frame advantage on hit or block, allowing Zangief to armor through an opponent's buttons. 2HK serves a similar purpose to 2MK, but with greater reach, reward, and risk.
Offense
Frame Traps
Light Chains - 2LP (+1) and 5LP (+2) are plus on block, leading to easy frame trap setups.
- 2LP/2LK > 5LP - 1f gap, auto-timed by chaining, blows up everything except invincible reversals, leaves Gief plus and in range for another strike/throw mix.
- 5LP/2LP, 2LK > 2LP. mashed chain to 2LK is a true blockstring, but a delayed chain or link leaves a frame trap opening.
- 2LK > 2LK. Delay chain 2LK to leave a 3f gap
6HP - Headbutt is +4 on block.
- 6HP, 2LK is a true blockstring
- 6HP, 5LK/5LP/2LP will frame trap with a 3/3/2f gap, respectively.
- 6HP, 2MP will trade with 4f lights. Depending on the normal and range, Zangief may be able to trade-combo 2LP afterward.
- 6HP, 360P will throw opponents out of the gap. MP SPD will always be in range after blocked headbutt.
Okizeme and Mixups
TO-DO
Knockdown Advantage: all scenarios assume that opponent will Back Rise midscreen when possible, unless otherwise stated
| Knockdown | KD Adv. | Oki/Notes |
|---|---|---|
| 6LPLK (Forward Throw) | +10 | Leaves Gief too far away to meaningfully pressure anything |
| 5LPLK | +22 | +0 after forward dash, can drive rush into meaty 5LK or SPD range |
| 5[LPLK] | +0 | Holding neutral throw does a follow-up which trades KD advantage for extra damage. |
| 4LPLK | +8 | Gives Zangief an immediate strike/throw mixup if the opponent lands in the corner or does not backroll. |
| 3LPLK | +33 | Best oki of normal throws by far. +11 after forward dash. Midscreen, you can Drive Rush to Throw Loop the opponent if they backroll. On neutral getup or in the corner, you can Throw Loop without needing Drive Rush. |
| 1LPLK | +9 | No oki possible due to distance |
| 2LPLK | +14 | No oki possible due to distance |
| 2HK | HKD +32 HKD +45 (Punish) |
On Punish Counter, Zangief can safejump any reversal with a brief, 2f delay. |
| 360P | HKD +30 (LP) HKD +28 (all other versions) |
After LP SPD, 1f window to meaty drive rush 5LK at range. |
| 63214K (far) | HKD +29 | Keeps same side, can check wakeup attacks and jumps with Drive Rush 5MP and can space out and punish wakeup attacks with L/EX SPD. |
| 63214K (close) | HKD +26 | Side-switches, immediate Drive Rush 6MK checks all non-invincible wakeup options while leaving Zangief plus enough to link into 3MP on hit and threaten H SPD on block. Can also meaty with Drive Rush L, M, or OD SPD. |
| PP | HKD +25 ~ 57 | +25 is for hitting 1st active frame against a grounded opponent. Later hits and airborne juggles give better frame advantage. |
| PPP | HKD +38 ~ 57 | Frame advantage varies heavily based on how OD Lariat juggles the opponent. The later the second hit lands, the more advantageous Zangief is. For most combos, gives better oki than standard Lariat. |
vs. Burnout
Drive Rush
When cancelling a normal into Drive Rush on block and following it up with another normal, there may be an interruptible gap in the blockstring. The following table lists these blockstring gaps when performed at the fastest possible timing.
| Gap Value | Meaning |
|---|---|
| 0 | True Blockstring (no gap) if input with fastest button timing; can still lose to Drive Reversal |
| 1 to 4 | Small blockstring gap; opponent can interrupt with an invincible reversal; a 4f gap can trade with 4f normal attack |
| 5+ | Large blockstring gap; opponent can interrupt without an invincible attack |
| 5LP | 5MP | 5HP | 5LK | 5MK | 5HK | 2LP | 2MP | 2HP | 2LK | 2MK | 2HK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5LP~DR | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? | ? |
The following table lists the general BnB combo routes when cancelling a button into Drive Rush on hit.
| Starter | Hit Adv. | Combo Route |
|---|---|---|
| 5LP | +? | ? |
Defense
Reversals
- Zangief has no strike-invincible or throw-invincible moves with the exception of his supers.
- SA1 is an anti-air command grab with 11f startup and limited range and is unlikely to work as a reversal even against very sloppy jump-in pressure.
- SA2 has 18f startup and can fail to punish many meaty normals.
- SA3 is Zangief's only real reversal in the practical sense. Will blow through any oki that is not airborne, will catch opponents trying to shimmy against normal throw tech as a bonus.
Zangief can use Jump-cancel SPD in order to call out meaty throw or shimmy attempts, although this does not offer any protection against strikes.
Anti-Airs
- PP (Lariat) and PPP (OD Lariat) are Zangief's main anti-airs. All versions have air invincibility and a large number of active frames which make them trivial to time.
- Despite what the animation suggests, Lariat does not hit behind Zangief. It will not work as an anti-air against cross-up jumps.
- It is possible to beat a cross-up jump with OD Lariat by delaying the input enough for Zangief to auto-correct to the opposite side before spinning.
- OD Lariat starts up faster, making it useful in situations where Zangief can not anti-air as early as he would like (for example, the opponent jumped over a whiffed 2MP).
- If OD Lariat anti-airs early, it will only hit once, and will deal less damage than regular Lariat. A late anti-air OD Lariat will hit twice and deal more damage than normal, while also juggling higher.
- Two-hit anti-air OD Lariat can be followed up with TK j.360KK if near the corner.
- Despite what the animation suggests, Lariat does not hit behind Zangief. It will not work as an anti-air against cross-up jumps.
- 2HP is Zangief's main normal anti-air. It is aimed in front of Gief, and also moves him forward slightly, so it tends to miss against close jump-ins and cross-ups.
- Can get additional combo opportunities if it trades with a jump-in, but is otherwise outclassed by Lariat.
- 5MP and 5HK are alternative anti-airs against jumps from ranges where Lariat will not reach.
- Jump-back j.LP as an air-to-air is Zangief's main way of dealing with cross-up jumps, as his traditional anti-airs will whiff. j.HP is a riskier option due to slower startup, but scores some extra damage and a knockdown.
- j.360K is an air-to-air grab that is quite fast and has very long horizontal and vertical reach. Like j.LP, jump-back Borscht can work as an answer to cross-up jumps, although doing this on reaction can be difficult.
- SA1 is an anti-air command grab. It has startup comparable to OD Lariat, but the motion input makes it harder to use reactively. Has underwhelming range and may miss even against a correctly-read jump-in attempt, especially when close. Also has the opportunity cost of using Zangief's precious super meter.
- However, deals heavy emotional damage if it works.
Anti-Projectile
- SA2 can be used on reaction to most projectiles from midscreen to punish.
- 5[HP]'s armor can be used to punch through single-hit fireballs or other pokes. This is similar to using Drive Impact, but is faster and carries less risk.
- PP (Lariat) is projectile-invincible for the duration and can punish projectiles at footsies range. However, using Lariat to pass through fireballs when it will not counterhit the opponent is dangerous due to lengthy recovery.
Fighting vs. Zangief
