Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/O. E. Honda

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The Characters

Introduction

Why pick Old Honda? Old Honda loses ST Honda's Oicho mixups, but gains important things as well:

• Regains his standing sweep kicks
• Has better ground fierce attacks
• Retains moving handslap

So the basics are HF-style grabby-into-slappy mixups.

O.Honda must be played with a fundamental understanding of SF2 mechanics and basic gameplay since he loses the ability to negative-edge oicho throw out many pressure situations and setups. O.Honda's general style will be more reliant on an understanding of proper usage of normals, throws, sweeps and footsies (stuffing attacks, baiting attacks, and continually applying safe pressure).

Competitive Overview

O.Honda does very well against non-fireball characters, but keep in mind that two of his worst matchups (Guile and DeeJay) are generally made even more difficult without the ability to quickly advance with Fierce HHS or continuously lock down your opponent with oicho setups in the corner. Shotos present a very difficult fight, especially O.Ken as he limits your ability to pressure with HHS due to his excellent SRK hitbox. As such, in a competitive environment you will ultimately end up facing many disadvantaged matchups and must learn to play perfectly in order to succeed. On the plus side, Honda vs. Claw is a very even matchup and perfectly winnable as long as you do not get knocked down midscreen.

Picking Old E.Honda

To select O.E.Honda, choose E.Honda and then press ↑ ↑ ↑ ↓ Jab/Fierce, pressing Short simultaneously with the punch button for the alternate color.

Normal	Secondary

--Born2SPD

New & Old Versions Comparison

Here is the list of differences:

• Obvious stuff: O.E.Honda can not tech throws, does not have the Oicho Throw and Super;
• O.E.Honda has some differences in some of his normals:
  • Close Standing Jab is exactly like the Far version. N.E.Honda received a new Close punch that combos into itself;
  • Far Standing Jab has faster startup/recovery and can be special canceled;
  • Crouching Jab can be special canceled;
  • Close Standing Strong is exactly like the Far version. N.E.Honda received a new Close punch that can be used in ticking;
  • Far Standing Strong has faster recovery;
  • Crouching Strong has better range and priority and can be used as anti air;
  • Close Standing Fierce first active part has less active frames and the other active part has more active frames and better priority/range. The total of active frames is the same though;
  • Far Standing Fierce is exactly like the Far version. N.E.Honda has a different version of O.E.Honda's Crouching Fierce with worse priority, worse startup, no knockdown, less damage potential, and no special cancel, but with a lot better recovery;
  • Crouching Fierce is his classic sweep punch. N.E.Honda received a new Crouching punch that hits twice;
  • Close Standing Short is a low hitting kick. N.E.Honda received a new Close knee that can be used in ticking;
  • Far Standing Short is a fast hitting sweep. N.E.Honda has a different version of O.E.Honda's Crouching Short with bigger hurtbox and worse priority;
  • Crouching Short is his classic spear kick. N.E.Honda received a near identical version of O.E.Honda Close Standing Short instead;
  • Close Standing Forward is a low hitting kick. N.E.Honda received a new Close knee that can be used in ticking;
  • Far Standing Forward is a fast hitting sweep. N.E.Honda has a different version of O.E.Honda's Crouching Forward with bigger hurtbox, less damage on the first hit and worse priority;
  • Crouching Forward is his classic 2-hit spear kick. N.E.Honda received a near identical version of O.E.Honda Close Standing Forward;
  • Far Standing Roundhouse is his classic long range sweep. For N.E.Honda it's the same as the Close version and that long range sweep became a Command Normal;
  • Neutral Jumping Jab is basically the same but with bigger hurtbox during the active frames. The horizontal priority is the same though;
  • Diagonal Jumping Jab has faster startup and a lot more active frames but with bigger hurtbox during the active frames. The horizontal priority is the same though;
  • Neutral Jumping Strong second active part has bigger hurtbox. The horizontal priority is the same though;
  • Diagonal Jumping Strong has 2 active parts and more active frames, but the first hitting part has less active frames if compared with N.E.Honda's version;
  • Neutral Jumping Fierce can not be steered and has bigger hurtbox during the active frames and some frames later. The horizontal priority is the same though;
  • Diagonal Jumping Fierce has bigger hurtbox during the active frames and some frames later. The horizontal priority is the same though;
  • Neutral Jumping Short has better horizontal priority;
  • Both Jumping Forwards have better horizontal priority but worse vertical priority. All in all N.E.Honda's version is better;
  • Neutral Jumping Roundhouse has a lot better priority and twice as many active frames;
  • Diagonal Jumping Roundhouse has a lot better priority but can not be used as a crossup attack;
• O.E.Honda's HHS behaves differently: has a little faster startup, a lot faster recovery, less minimal attacking duration and steerable properties. N.E.Honda's version is slower and can not be steered but Strong and Fierce versions create a fast impulse once activated;
• O.E.Honda's Headbutts do less knockback on block/hit;
• O.E.Honda's Jab Headbutt has slower startup and Strong headbutt has twice as much active frames;
• O.E.Honda's Butt Drop has smaller hitbox on the second active part (when he's falling) which gives him worse crossup ability;

In general, O.E.Honda has a better normal set (has a awesome Standing Jab, can use his Fierce Chop from any range, has all his knockdown normals from HF and most of his other normals have little benefits). But because his HHS is so different he is played in a different way (like HF Honda). Both versions have pretty much the same strength though, they are just played differently. Choose whichever version suits your style better.

Moves Analysis

Disclaimer: To better understand the diagrams, read this.

Normal Moves

Ground Normals

• Close/Far Standing Jab:

Damage	20[1]
Stun	0~5
Stun Timer	40
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	Yes*
Frame Advantage	+6
Frame Count		2	2	4	2	1
Simplified		1 + 4		4	3

• Crouching Jab:

Damage	20[1]
Stun	0~5
Stun Timer	40
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	Yes*
Frame Advantage	+2
Frame Count		2	2	8	2	1
Simplified		1 + 4		8	3

• Close/Far Standing Strong:

Damage	24[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	60
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	+9
Frame Count		2	2	2	4	2	2	1
Simplified		1 + 6			4	5

• Crouching Strong:

Damage	24[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	60
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	-1
Frame Count		2	2	2	8	6	4	1
Simplified		1 + 6			8	11

• Close/Far Standing Fierce:

Damage	30[2]
Stun	10~16
Stun Timer	80
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	-3 / +0
Frame Count		3	3	3	4
Simplified		1 + 6		7

Frame Count	7	5	3	2	1
Simplified	18

• Crouching Fierce:

Damage	32[2]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	130
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	Yes*
Frame Advantage	-10
Frame Count		2	3	4
Simplified		1 + 5		4

Frame Count	6	8	6	4	3	1
Simplified	28

• Close Standing Short:

Damage	18[1]
Stun	0~5
Stun Timer	40
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	Yes
Frame Advantage	+6
Frame Count		1	2	3	3	1
Simplified		1 + 3		3	4

• Far Standing Short:

Damage	20[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	130
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	+2
Frame Count		3	3	3	4	3	3	1
Simplified		1 + 9			4	7

• Crouching Short:

Damage	18[1]
Stun	0~5
Stun Timer	40
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	+3
Frame Count		3	3	3	3	3	3	1
Simplified		1 + 9			3	7

• Close Standing Forward:

Damage	22[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	60
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	+5
Frame Count		3	3	5	7	1
Simplified		1 + 6		5	8

• Far Standing Forward:

Damage	24[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	130
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	+2
Frame Count		3	3	3	4	5	6	1
Simplified		1 + 9			4	12

• Crouching Forward:

Damage	14[1] + 24[1]
Stun	5~11 + 5~11
Stun Timer	60 + 60
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	-1 / +2(+1)
Frame Count		3	3	3	6	5	4	1
Simplified		1 + 6		3	6	10

• Close Standing Roundhouse:

Damage	4[2] + 30[0]
Stun	3~9 + 10~16
Stun Timer	40 + 80
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	-4 / -1(-2)
Frame Count		2	2	3	3	5
Simplified		1 + 7			3	5

Frame Count	8	6	3	1
Simplified	18

• Far Standing Roundhouse:

Damage	28[2]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	130
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	-3
Frame Count		3	3	3	6	8	10	1
Simplified		1 + 9			6	19

• Crouching Roundhouse:

Damage	32[2]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	130
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	-3 / +7
Frame Count		3	4	6	4	8	6	1
Simplified		1 + 7		6	4	8	7

Aerial Normals

• Neutral Jumping Jab:

Damage	20[1]
Stun	1~7(-2)
Stun Timer	40
Frame Count		2	3	3	30	∞
Simplified		8			30	∞

• Diagonal Jumping Jab:

Damage	16[1]
Stun	1~7(-2)
Stun Timer	40
Frame Count		2	3	3	30	∞
Simplified		8			30	∞

• Neutral Jumping Strong:

Damage	22[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	50(+10)
Frame Count		3	4	4	12
Simplified		7		16

Frame Count	8	4	4	∞
Simplified	∞

• Diagonal Jumping Strong:

Damage	22[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	50(+10)
Frame Count		3	4	4	12
Simplified		7		16

Frame Count	8	4	4	∞
Simplified	∞

• Neutral Jumping Fierce:

Damage	32[2]
Stun	11~17(-1)
Stun Timer	60(+20)
Frame Count		3	4	6	8	4	4	∞
Simplified		7		6	∞

• Diagonal Jumping Fierce:

Damage	30[2]
Stun	3~9
Stun Timer	40
Frame Count		3	4	8	8	4	4	∞
Simplified		7		8	∞

• Neutral Jumping Short:

Damage	16[1]
Stun	1~7(-2)
Stun Timer	40
Frame Count		3	4	30	4	∞
Simplified		7		30	∞

• Diagonal Jumping Short:

Damage	16[1]
Stun	1~7(-2)
Stun Timer	40
Frame Count		3	4	∞
Simplified		7		∞

• Neutral Jumping Forward:

Damage	22[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	50(+10)
Frame Count		3	4	12	4	4	4	4	4	∞
Simplified		7		12	∞

• Diagonal Jumping Forward:

Damage	22[1]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	50(+10)
Frame Count		3	4	12	4	4	4	4	4	∞
Simplified		7		12	∞

• Neutral Jumping Roundhouse:

Damage	30[2]
Stun	11~17(-1)
Stun Timer	60(+20)
Frame Count		3	4	12	4	4	4	4	4	∞
Simplified		7		12	∞

• Diagonal Jumping Roundhouse:

Damage	30[2]
Stun	3~9
Stun Timer	40
Frame Count		3	4	10	4	4	4	4	4	∞
Simplified		7		10	∞

Command Normals

• Double Knee Attack: (On ground and close, ←/→ + Forward)

Damage	26[1] + 16[1]
Stun	5~11 + 5~11
Stun Timer	60 + 60
Chain Cancel	No
Special Cancel	No
Frame Advantage	+5 / +8(+7)
Frame Count		3	3	3	3	3
Simplified		1 + 9			3	3

Frame Count	2	2	2	1
Simplified	7

• Flying Sumo Press: (Jump diagonally, ↙/↓/↘ + Forward)

Damage	24[2]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	50
Frame Count		3	4	∞
Simplified		7		∞

Throws

E.Honda can throw using Strong, Fierce and Roundhouse. All his throws have the same range, which happens to be the best normal throw range in the game.

• Grabs Throwboxes:

Throw			Holds
Damage		32	Damage	24 + 4*n
Stun		7~13	Set amount of hits	8 / 7
Stun Timer		100	Holds do no stun
Range	(from axis)	64	(from throwable box)	36

• Tawara Nage: (←/→ + Strong)

E.Honda tosses the opponent. The direction of the joystick determines the direction the enemy gets tossed at. Useful to throw characters at a corner.

• Saba Ori: (←/→ + Fierce)

This is the throw you will be using the most. It's untechable, does nice damage, and sets up crossup / walk under / tick shenanigans. You can even crossup / walk under when in the corner after a fierce grab (you can walk under, cr. RH for a crossup, or go for a crossup d + Forward, cr.Jab, Oicho, etc). Note that some characters (Balrog, Cammy, DeeJay, Vega, Fei Long) cannot be walked under outside of the corner.

• Sekkan Kyaku: (←/→ + Roundhouse)

You can start a loop against any character with this grab (unless they recover against the corner). After a successful HK grab, hold up-forward to jump in with an air attack (such as j.MK) while the character is still recovering in the air, and you'll get to repeat the tick again. This usually does one hit less than the Fierce Grab.

Special Moves

• Hyakuretsu Harite a.k.a. Hundred Hands Slap: (Press P repeatedly)
• Startup:

Frame Count (Jab)	1	3
Simplified (Jab)	4
Frame Count (Strong)	3	4
Simplified (Strong)	7
Frame Count (Fierce)	4	6
Simplified (Fierce)	10

• Active:

	Jab	Strong	Fierce
Damage	24[1] / 22[1]	26[2] / 24[2]	28[3] / 26[3]
Stun	5~11
Stun Timer	100
Frame Count (Jab)				4	4	4
Frame Count (Strong)				2	2	2
Frame Count (Fierce)				1	1	1

Frame Count (Jab)	4	4	4
Frame Count (Strong)	2	2	2
Frame Count (Fierce)	1	1	1

NOTE: That frame data only provides the frame data for one "cycle" of the HHS animation, but does not present the Minimal Durations of the move. So, in case you only do the 4 punch presses needed you will get the minimal duration. Note that O.E.Honda can slap forever unlike N.E.Honda which has a limit. That detailed frame data can be found here:

Cycles		1						2						3						Total
Jab	MIN	4	4	4	3	X	X													15
Strong	MIN	2	2	2	2	2	2	2	1	X	X	X	X							15
Fierce	MIN	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	1	X	X	X	15
Cycles		1						2						3						Total

• Recovery:

Frame Count (Jab)	1	1
Simplified (Jab)	2
Frame Count (Strong)	3	1
Simplified (Strong)	4
Frame Count (Fierce)	5	1
Simplified (Fierce)	6

The lower damage value is for the low hitting frames.

• Super Zutsuki a.k.a. Headbutt: (Charge ←, →, P)

Detailed Input: (Charge ← for at least 60f, [0~7f] → [0~10/9/7f] Jab/Strong/Fierce. It is needed to wait at least 1 frame after leaving the charge direction to enter with the P button)

• Startup + Active:

	Jab	Strong	Fierce	Jab & Strong Only			Jab	Strong & Fierce	Jab	Strong & Fierce
Damage	28[1] / 28[2]	30[2] / 30[3]	32[3] / 32[4]
Stun	9~15
Stun Timer	100
Frame Count (Jab)				3	4	6	3		3		22
Simplified (Jab)				13			6				22
Frame Count (Strong)				1	2	6	2		2		53
Simplified (Strong)				11					2		53
Frame Count (Fierce)					1	4	1		1		53
Simplified (Fierce)				6					1		53

NOTE: The last damage value is for the advancing/flying part of the move.

• Recovery/Knockback: (If it hits during the airbone part, the knockback will be airbone till the 4º hitbox image)

Frame Count	4	4	4	8/9	2	2	1
Simplified	25/26

Jab headbutt will be your main defensive tool. It has invincibility on startup and has excellent vertical and horizontal range, which makes jumping in or getting in-close Honda a nearly impossible task. Learn to time your Jab headbutt and matches against non-fireballers will become way easier.
Fierce version is very fast and can be used to safely pressure and punish mistakes (whiffs or people coming down from a jumping attack for example) at mid range. Avoid using it from full-screen especially if out opponent is near the corner as he can jump it on reaction and punish you afterwards.

• Super Hyakkan Otoshi a.k.a. Butt Drop: (Charge ↓, ↑, K)

Detailed Input: (Charge ↓ for at least 60f, [0~7f] ↑ [0~10/9/7/5f] Short/Forward/Roundhouse/any K if you are at a jumpable state. It is needed to wait at least 1 frame after leaving the charge direction to enter with the K button)

• Startup:

Frame Count (Short)	1	4	5	2	5	4
Simplified (Short)	21
Frame Count (Forward)	1	3	4	2	5	4
Simplified (Forward)	19
Frame Count (Rh)	1	3	4	2	4	4
Simplified (Rh)	18... (42)

• Active + Recovery:

	Short	Forward	Rh	Short & Forward	Roundhouse	File:OEHonda bdrop8to10anm.png
Damage	24[2]	28[2]	32[2]
Stun	9~15 / 2~8	9~15	9~15
Stun Timer	100 / 90	100	100
Frame Count (Short)				9		9 (3 + 3 + 3)	2	2	10	4
Simplified (Short)				9		13			10	4
Frame Count (Forward)				9		9 (3 + 3 + 3)	2	2	12	5
Simplified (Forward)				9		13			12	5
Frame Count (Rh)				11		9 (3 + 3 + 3)	2	2	15	6
Simplified (Rh)				...24 (42)					15	6

Short version hits on the way up (so it's a decent antiand is useful to get over projectiles from far away. Forward hits on the way up too, can be used to stuff projectile attempts at the right distance, and is a risky way to get over projectiles (can be punished by sweeps -shotos- and jumping attacks -Guile, DeeJay- if they see it coming). Roundhouse should be used mainly for crossups, mixups and setting ticks rather than as a way to avoid projectiles, as it is extremely easy to punish in those situations. It hits only on the way down unlike the other versions.
To use as a pressure / mixup tool, it's a good idea to do cr.Short xx Smash, varying strenghts to make the opponent guess if you are going to cross-up or not, and mixing up ticks in-between.
The lower stun value is for the downward active part of the Short version only.