User:Dnalsi/sandbox: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 04:13, 15 October 2023

Feint Input Buffer

Unlike Evasion attacks or command normals, feints require a buffer.

Generally, the buffer window to feint is, after going to neutral, pressing A+C within 10 frames of pressing a feint direction (2 or 6). (Or 2～10F of the direction input.)

5 2/6 A+C 5 2 6 A+C 5 6 2 A+C

(1) The initial direction of the command is neutral. You remain on it as long as you like.

(2) But once you leave that initial direction of neutral for one frame of a direction that is not a feint direction you have 7F to go to a feint direction (8F total buffer).

(3) Once you get to that feint direction, you have 7F to go to the other feint direction (8F total buffer).

(4) Whether you're at the first feint direction or the second feint direction, you have 8F to press A+C together to feint (9F total buffer)

At the start of a new buffer, you can't press the feint direction and A+C at the same frame (2+A+C or 6+A+C).

When you reach a feint direction for a feint, you are able to go to the other feint direction for the other feint only once.

Unless you exceed the 9F buffer total buffer for the first feint direction, you will feint with that direction.

After the buffer is exceeded, you only need to go to at least 1 frame of neutral to reset the buffer before you redo the input.

Feint Cancel Timing

In general, you input the feint for a feint cancel as you would a special for a special cancel -- during the hit animation.

But similar to target combos, a feint can be input during startup, slightly before hitting.

For a normal, the input window for a feint is 2 frames before the first active frame that connects, to the 1 frame after exiting hitstop/blockstop. (This is usually the last 2 frames of startup before the first.)

However for 2AB, the earliest you can input feint is the 1st frame of hitstop. Maybe it's because of the different hitstun and blockstun values that restrict that.

As long as you don't trigger any other special cancel, you can attempt to do feint cancel multiple times -- pressing A+C multiple times -- if you feel like you misinputted it (as long as you haven't exceeded the feint buffer).

Feint Cancel with Kara Cancel

Just like a special cancel, you can also feint cancel using the same timing as kara cancel inputs.

This gives you even more leeway when inputting a feint cancel during the feint cancel window.

You don't always have to strictly press A+C after the feint direction for a feint cancel.

Like the window to self kara cancel, you have the same window to feint cancel by pressing A+C slightly before the feint direction:

You have 5F after pressing A+C to press the feint direction (6F total window).
With this max window at 6F, with this 1 frame of direction at 6F, the lastest

you input the feint is at the 7F.

Like a same frame kara cancel, you can feint cancel by doing a feint direction and A+C at the same frame (2+A+C or 6+A+C).

Other Feint Techniques

With the input buffer in mind, you can do the following:

You can do your feint in a non-feint direction: 2 1AC or 2 3AC or 6 3AC

And you can buffer a motion into a feint: such as 236AC or 2AC36 or 632AC or 214AC

You can motion store your feint cancel

For example, cl.5C > 236A+C
You can then complete the buffer to go into a super, or do something else.

Feint Reversal Timing

It takes 1 frame of action to stop a feint.

The earliest you can stop a feint is 1F before the "minimum feint frames"

When you stop a feint, you make it go through recovery, and end that recovery, all on that same frame.

This recovery ends on that frame, and the next frame is the 1F after recovery that your reversal starts.

Rather the reversal window is created on the spot.

A reversal window of 2F: the 1F of action to the 1F after.

But you can't end a feint with the same feint direction. You can't hold the same direction through reversal. Only on the 1F after the minimum feint frames can you press the same direction and reversal on the next frame.

As said above, feints can be ended/canceled by other moves.

You can buffer (and disguise) your movement from your feint

6AC 6 to dash forward
2AC 69 to super jump forward

Generally, when doing a feint, holding the direction doesn't cancel your feint.

For example, holding the direction [6]AC doesn't immediately end the feint to walk forward.
Holding a feint direction with the button you're feint canceling makes you unable to immediately end the feint into that direction.

You have to another direction or press the direction again, like the feint into dash from above. (Or another move)

Feint Reversal Timing:

Doing movement and other actions after feint or feint cancel is similar to reversal timing (see #Timing_For_Reversals).

However, the earliest you can do dash forward will be slightly different.

(1) Doing a feint and going in the direction that's different from the feint direction.

(2) Doing a feint cancel from a normal without any direction used immediately before.

In cases (1) and (2), just holding the direction does end your feint into either walk forward or crouch. And you can reversal dash forward at the following timing.

forward dash step: 1F before the end of the minimum feint frames; 1F after minimum feint frames; (2F window)

Forward dash run, Freeman forward dash step: 1F-4F before the end of the minimum feint frames; 1F after minimum feint frames; (5F window)

(3) When doing a feint, you cannot end the feint at the minimum feint frames by holding that same feint direction through the feint animation.

(4) Similarly, when doing a feint cancel, if you are holding a feint direction the frame before the normal button is pressed, you cannot end the feint cancel at the minimum feint frames by holding that same feint direction through the feint animation.

In cases (3) and (4), just holding the direction doesn't end your feint into either walk forward or crouch -- you have to do an action or other direction.

Forward feint can be ended with any other direction.
Down feint can be ended with any other direction besides down-foward.
Consequently, you can jump or hop on the first frame after the minimum feint frames.
You can only press the same direction as the feint direction immediately after the minimum feint frames to end the feint early.
Both the dash run and the dash step can only be completed the earliest after the minimum feint frames.

In all the cases, the earliest to complete other actions to end at the minimum feint frames is the following.

Normals, evasion attacks, backdash, super jump, special, T.O.P. attack, super: 1F before the end of the minimum feint frames; 1F after minimum feint frames; (2F window)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-===Kara Cancels===
+====Feint Input Buffer====
-Japanese term that means [https://glossary.infil.net/?t=Kara%20Cancel "empty cancel"].
+Unlike Evasion attacks or command normals, feints require a buffer.
-It is canceling a move during it's startup, before it becomes active, with another move.
+Generally, the buffer window to feint is, after going to neutral,
+pressing A+C '''within 10 frames of pressing a feint direction (2 or 6)'''. (Or 2～10F of the direction input.)
-In general, you can cancel out of all normal attacks and most upper-body evasion attacks into a special/super/TOP attack, before seeing the attack animation fully finish.
+2/6 A+C
+2 6 A+C
+6 2 A+C
-When you complete the special/super/top attack, you continue through one frame (of the normal or upper-body evasion attack) and then kara cancel in the next frame.
-The window for kara canceling is the 2F to the 1st active frame of the normal or upper-body evasion attack.
+(1) The initial direction of the command is neutral. You remain on it as long as you like.
+(2) But once you leave that initial direction of neutral for one frame of a direction
+that is not a feint direction you have 7F to go to a feint direction (8F total buffer).
+(3) Once you get to that feint direction, you have 7F to go to the other feint direction (8F total buffer).
-Kara cancels have a few uses:
+(4) Whether you're at the first feint direction or the second feint direction, you have 8F to press A+C together to feint (9F total buffer)
-* You can cancel some non-cancellable moves.
-* Gains some extra range on certain special/super/TOP attacks.
-* Kara cancel from various normals and evasive moves to hide your buffering behind them to throw off opponents in mind game situations.
-** Use longer startup moves to stay on up directions 7/8/9 longer without jumping before kara canceling.
-* Take advantage of movement and startup invincibility of moves before kara canceling.
-* Use the proximity guard of the move to make them unable to move back, or possibly unable to JD, if they're just holding back.
-* Allows for slightly more lenient execution, especially if you press a button before a direction during execution
-* Used in techniques like [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Advanced_Techniques#Pseudo_Chain_Cancels | Pseudo Chain Canceling]] and [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Advanced_Techniques#Ave_Maria | Ave Maria]].
+At the start of a new buffer, you can't press the feint direction and A+C at the same frame (2+A+C or 6+A+C).
-====Kara Cancel with Evasive Attacks====
+When you reach a feint direction for a feint, you are able to go to the other feint direction for the other feint only once.
-Press {{Icon-SNK|A}} + {{Icon-SNK|B}}/{{Motion|d}} + {{Icon-SNK|A}} + {{Icon-SNK|B}} then do a special move to cancel out of its starting animation.
+Unless you exceed the 9F buffer total buffer for the first feint direction, you will feint with that direction.
+After the buffer is exceeded, you only need to go to at least 1 frame of neutral to reset the buffer before you redo the input.
-A lot like Kara Cancels in Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike you can cancel certain high/low dodge attacks with every character.
-Some are more useful than others and some are easier to cancel out than other characters.
-Great tool to benefit from the upper/lower invincibility when performing special moves.
+====Feint Cancel Timing====
-Here is a list of characters that can cancel their {{Icon-SNK|A}} + {{Icon-SNK|B}} overheards while in the air:
+In general, you input the feint for a feint cancel as you would a special for a special cancel -- during the hit animation.
-*Tizoc - {{Motion|qcf}} + {{Icon-SNK|A}}
+But similar to [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Offense#Chain_Combos_and_Target_Combos | target combos]],
-*Hotaru - {{Motion|qcb}} + [[File:kick.gif]]
+a feint can be input during startup, slightly before hitting.
-*Jenet - {{Motion|d}} +[[File:kick.gif]]
-*Grant - {{Motion|d}} + [[File:kick.gif]]
-*Hokutomaru - {{Motion|qcf}} + [[File:punch.gif]] or {{Motion|qcb}} + [[File:kick.gif]]
-*Rock - any of his specials/supers - Rock (His doesn't come off the ground but he uses it the most effectively. Mainly because it opens up so many options for him during wake up situations.)
+For a normal, the input window for a feint is 2 frames before the first active frame that connects,
+to the 1 frame after exiting hitstop/blockstop.
+(This is usually the last 2 frames of startup before the first.)
+However for 2AB, the earliest you can input feint is the 1st frame of hitstop.
+Maybe it's because of the different hitstun and blockstun values that restrict that.
-====Self Kara Cancel====
-(Potential alternate names might be "same button same command kara canceling", "self canceling", or "pre-buffer canceling".)
+As long as you don't trigger any other special cancel, you can attempt to do feint cancel multiple times --
+pressing A+C multiple times -- if you feel like you misinputted it (as long as you haven't exceeded the feint buffer).
-You can kara cancel a normal or upper-body evasion attack '''with just a command motion'''.
-If you complete a special's motion during the attack's startup, you will go through one frame of the attack on that frame of completion and then kara cancel into that special on the next frame.
+====Feint Cancel with Kara Cancel====
+Just like a special cancel, you can also feint cancel using the same timing as kara cancel inputs.
-You just complete the command after the button press.
-The window for this is 5F after pressing the normal or upper-body evasion attack (6F total window).
+This gives you even more leeway when inputting a feint cancel during the feint cancel window.
-With this max window at 6F, with this 1 frame of direction at 6F, the lastest you kara cancel is at the 7F.
+You don't always have to strictly press A+C after the feint direction for a feint cancel.
-And like a regular kara cancel, you are still limited through startup until the 1st active frame.
+Like the window to [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Offense#Self_Kara_Cancel | self kara cancel]],
+you have the same window to feint cancel by pressing A+C slightly before the feint direction:
+* You have 5F after pressing A+C to press the feint direction (6F total window).
+* With this max window at 6F, with this 1 frame of direction at 6F, the lastest
+you input the feint is at the 7F.
-You'll see this window working whenever you press a button before the motion for the command finishes.
+Like a [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Offense#Same_Frame_Kara_Cancel | same frame kara cancel]],
+you can feint cancel by doing a feint direction and A+C at the same frame (2+A+C or 6+A+C).
-<blockquote>
-Note: It would be impossible to kara cancel supers like this. That is because most supers (1) take too long to do, and (2) parts of their motions, like the first QCF, would be recognized and kara cancel as a special input.
-</blockquote>
-====Misinput by Kara Cancel====
+====Other Feint Techniques====
-Kara cancel behavior commonly causes misinputs.
+With the input buffer in mind, you can do the following:
-Common causes of kara cancel misinputs:
+;; You can do your feint in a non-feint direction
-* Attempting to special cancel too quickly resulting in kara cancel. (ex: attempting to do 2C > 236B, but getting 2C kara cancel into 236B)
+: 2 1AC or 2 3AC or 6 3AC
-* Doing a command motion too quickly after a button, resulting in self kara cancel. (ex: attempting to do 2C > 236B, but getting 2C kara cancel into 236C)
-* Pressing the button slightly before completing the command motion, resulting in self kara cancel. (ex: 23B6 will output 2B kara cancel 236B)
+;; And you can buffer a motion into a feint
+: such as 236AC or 2AC36 or 632AC or 214AC
-You can be moving around -- quickly trying to put out attacks or just buffering various options -- and then end up getting moves accidentally.
+;; You can [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Advanced_Techniques#Motion_Storing_Technique | motion store]] your feint cancel:
+: For example, cl.5C > 236A+C <br>You can then complete the buffer to go into a super, or do something else.
-To avoid doing unintended kara cancels, use double button inputs and other [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Advanced_Techniques#Simultaneous_Button_Press_for_Normals | simultaneous button presses]].
-Simultaneous button presses will stop a special/super move from being triggered, just like with the motion storing technique (described in the above link).
+====Feint Reversal Timing====
-For example, you can do 66 A+D 3214 so you don’t kara cancel 5A into 214A.
+It takes 1 frame of action to stop a feint.
+The earliest you can stop a feint is 1F before the "minimum feint frames"
+When you stop a feint, you make it go through recovery, and end that recovery, all on that same frame.
-====Same Frame Kara Cancel====
+This recovery ends on that frame, and the next frame is the 1F after recovery that your reversal starts.
-Also known as '''kara canceling due to simultaneous direction and button press for special/super commands'''.
+Rather the reversal window is created on the spot.
-This happens when the last direction input of a special/super command and its button are pressed at the same time.
+A reversal window of 2F: the 1F of action to the 1F after.
-This is an edge case of [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Offense#Self_Kara_Cancel | self kara cancel]],
-where you complete the command motion on the 1st frame of the button press.
+But you can't end a feint with the same feint direction.
+You can't hold the same direction through reversal.
+Only on the 1F after the minimum feint frames can you press the same direction
+and reversal on the next frame.
-Like for every kara cancel, there is an extra delay of 1F of the normal animation before executing.
-In this case, after the 1st frame of the normal's startup, you kara cancel into the special/super's startup.
-Otherwise, you are waiting and holding the last direction for a minimum of 1 frame before pressing the button. (Both cases have effectively the same startup length.)
-Generally [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Calculation#Special/Super_Input_Buffering | every special/super command will need 1F of the last direction before executing]].
-(Similar to how all jumps need 1 frame of landing.)
-So if you press the last direction and the button at the same time, the game will add this extra 1F of the last direction for you.
-If commands overlap, between the command that is kara canceled and one that is not, the game will prefer/prioritize the command that is not kara canceled.
-In other words, the game will do the command that already went through 1F of its last direction, rather than wait to do the other command on the next frame.
-For example, Rock 412369C:
-+C at the same time --> double reppuken
-C pressed during frames 2～3F of the 9 direction --> command throw
+As said above, feints can be ended/canceled by other moves.
-When you press C on the same frame as jump the game accepts it as double reppuken first.
-C needs to be input 1F after going to 9 to input command throw.
+; You can buffer (and disguise) your movement from your feint:
+* 6AC 6 to dash forward
+* 2AC 69 to super jump forward
+; Generally, when doing a feint, holding the direction doesn't cancel your feint.
+* For example, holding the direction [6]AC doesn't immediately end the feint to walk forward.
+* Holding a feint direction with the button you're feint canceling makes you unable to immediately end the feint into that direction.
+You have to another direction or press the direction again,
+like the feint into dash from above. (Or another move)
-====Other Kara Cancel Situations====
-Originally noted in the [[Garou:_Mark_of_the_Wolves/Calculation#Air_Special_Buffer | "Air Special Buffer"]] section:
-You cannot simultaneously press direction and button
+Feint Reversal Timing:
-for air specials during hops. The jump normal comes out instead.
+---------------------------------------
-Most likely because this is a kara cancel on the first frame
+Doing movement and other actions after feint or feint cancel
-and you cannot special cancel during a hop.
+is similar to reversal timing (see [[#Timing_For_Reversals]]).
+However, the earliest you can do dash forward will be slightly different.
+(1) Doing a feint and going in the direction that's different from the feint direction.
+(2) Doing a feint cancel from a normal without any direction used immediately before.
+;In cases (1) and (2), just holding the direction does end your feint into either walk forward or crouch. And you can reversal dash forward at the following timing.
+;;forward dash step
+:1F before the end of the minimum feint frames
+:1F after minimum feint frames
+:(2F window)
+;;Forward dash run, Freeman forward dash step
+:1F-4F before the end of the minimum feint frames
+:1F after minimum feint frames
+:(5F window)
+(3) When doing a feint, you cannot end the feint at the minimum feint frames
+by holding that same feint direction through the feint animation.
+(4) Similarly, when doing a feint cancel,
+if you are holding a feint direction the frame before the normal button is pressed,
+you cannot end the feint cancel at the minimum feint frames
+by holding that same feint direction through the feint animation.
+;In cases (3) and (4), just holding the direction ''doesn't'' end your feint into either walk forward or crouch -- you have to do an action or other direction.
+* Forward feint can be ended with any other direction.
+* Down feint can be ended with any other direction besides down-foward.
+* Consequently, you can jump or hop on the first frame after the minimum feint frames.
+* You can only press the same direction as the feint direction immediately '''after''' the minimum feint frames to end the feint early.
+* Both the '''dash run and the dash step''' can only be completed the earliest '''after''' the minimum feint frames.
+;In all the cases, the earliest to complete other actions to end at the minimum feint frames is the following.
+;;Normals, evasion attacks, backdash, super jump, special, T.O.P. attack, super
+:1F before the end of the minimum feint frames
+:1F after minimum feint frames
+:(2F window)