https://wiki.supercombo.gg/api.php?action=feedcontributions&user=Gargamuza&feedformat=atomSuperCombo Wiki - User contributions [en]2024-03-29T07:06:52ZUser contributionsMediaWiki 1.39.2https://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo/Zangief&diff=30357Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/Zangief2008-10-10T21:43:26Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
<hr />
<div><!-- Portrait graphic near top, added by Raisin --><br />
[[Image:ST_Zangief_portrait.png|right|Zangief's portrait in Super Turbo]]<br />
<br />
==Introduction==<br />
<br />
==Color Options==<br />
===New Zangief Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Zangief_new_colors.png|New Zangief's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
To choose the "Hold" color, press and hold any button except Start for 2 seconds. To choose any other color, simply tap the desired button.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 30, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
===Old Zangief Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Zangief_old_colors.png|Old Zangief's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
Old Zangief's input code is LRRR. Pressing Short simultaneously with Jab or Fierce will give you the alternate color.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 30, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
==Move Analysis==<br />
<br />
===Normal Moves===<br />
<br />
===Normal Throws===<br />
As the prototypical grappler, Gief has the most normal throws in the game and even a couple of the best in his strong and roundhouse throws. That said, because of his excellent command grabs, his normal throws go mostly unused.<br />
<br />
Toward/back + strong: Zangief sits on the opponent's head, opponent always stays in front of Zangief. Sets up a crossup fierce splash when unteched. Zangief's most commonly-used normal throw.<br />
<br />
Toward/back + fierce: Gief does, I don't know, something to the opponent's face for multiple hits. Crappy range.<br />
<br />
Toward/back + forward: Zangief throws the opponent over his head, opponent always ends up behind him. Not as useful as strong because the opponent is thrown too far for a splash, but if Gief is in the corner and you want the opponent cornered, here ya go.<br />
<br />
Toward/back + roundhouse: Gief bites the opponent for multiple hits. For a normal throw, this has great range and does great damage, and it would be awesome for any other character, but again, if you're going to grab, the command grabs are the ways to go. <br />
<br />
Down + strong: Crouching version of the fierce throw. This sometimes comes out when you want a crouching strong poke, and that's fine because the throw does more damage, but it's never used on purpose. <br />
<br />
Down + fierce: Same deal, except you very rarely press crouching fierce, so you'll probably never see it in-game.<br />
<br />
(Gief and opponent in air) Toward/back + roundhouse/forward: Zangief tosses over his head in the direction pressed. Ok range, but very rarely used.<br />
<br />
(Gief and opponent in air) Toward/back + strong/fierce: Gief throws the opponent down in the direction pressed. This is the better airthrow because it leaves the opponent closer, but it's still very rarely used.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Command Normals===<br />
Toward/back + strong/fierce: Gief does a stupid little hop. The move has like no range, beats just about nothing out, and is almost never used on purpose. It was probably meant as a way for Zangief to be able to hop over opponents' low normals, but it's not very good at doing that. Mostly it's just an annoyance.<br />
<br />
Jump straight up strong/fierce: Gief does a sort of headbutt thing. In the Japanese version it's often an instant dizzy, but in the American version it got nerfed, so it's not very useful.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
<br />
Spinning pile driver (360 + punch): A command throw with great range that does great damage; this is Zangief's most important move. The jab version has the best range but does the worst damage and fierce has the worst range but does the best damage, although the range and damage don't vary all that much. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack, like a dragon punch.<br />
<br />
Atomic suplex (close 360 + kick): This command throw is more damaging than spd, but its range is much smaller. If you're right up close, go for this for more guaranteed damage. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack.<br />
<br />
Running bear grab (far 360 + kick): Gief runs a little distance, and as soon as he gets close enough he grabs the opponent. This does less damage than spd and spd's range is only a little smaller than this move's max running range, but it's still useful in some matchups and in surprise situations. The startup time means the opponent can jump or even hit Gief out of it with a normal.<br />
<br />
Punch lariat (Jab + Strong + Fierce): Gief spins around with hands a-flailing, going through fireballs, high tiger shots, some supers, and most high- and mid- level normals. The active hitbox extends to all of the area around Gief's head but only to one of Gief's hands, so although the hand with the hitbox beats just about every non-invincible move in its range, the chance of that happening is a little less than 50%; as a result, while the lariat can beat things like Honda's headbutt, it does so only occasionally. This has no lower-body invincibility.<br />
<br />
Kick lariat (short + forward + roundhouse): Like the punch lariat, but this one has a shorter duration and doesn't move laterally as far. It also hits "lower"; for example, while punch lariat beats Boxer's far standing fierce better, kick lariat beats Claw's crouching strong better. This goes through Sagat's low tiger shots, and while it loses to moves you need to block low, it does go through a weird assortment of "lower" level normals.<br />
<br />
Green hand aka banishing fist (toward, down-toward, down + punch): The fist beats out fireballs, but only while it's glowing. It's used to move through fireballs, but it's generally not as good at that as the lariat because of its startup and recovery. The hitbox at the fist is really robust, so it beats out just about everything if timed right. The move is mainly used as a quick way to get Gief into better range after a command grab.<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Super Move===<br />
<br />
720 (two joystick rotations plus any punch button): The range on this thing is more like that of the atomic suplex than spd, but it can take off up to about 60% of the opponent's life. It's used pretty rarely because you need to be so close to land it, but if you get a chance, go for it. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
==The Basics== <br />
<br />
Zangief's game revolves around landing his command grabs. He wants to be up close to the opponent ticking into spd or getting a running bear grab. Gief uses his lariats and green hand to get into footsie range, where he uses his excellent crouching roundhouse, standing short, and standing forward pokes as well as lariats to get a knockdown or set up a spinning pile driver. <br />
<br />
===Ticking===<br />
Ticking is the action of following a blocked move with a throw so that the opponent is forced to take damage even though they successfully blocked your attack. Since Zangief relies heavily on ticks into his SPD, ticking is an important part of learning how to use Zangief. While Zangief can tick from almost all his moves, the following are his most common ticks and a good Zangief player should be able to do them all. The sections and the ticks in each section are roughly in order from easiest to most difficult.<br />
<br />
====Ticks from the Air====<br />
*Jumping Short/Forward/Roundhouse -> SPD <BR><br />
*Down+Jumping Short/Forward (Knee Press) -> SPD <BR><br />
*Jumping Down+Fierce (Chest Press) -> SPD <BR><br />
*Jumping Fierce -> SPD <BR><br />
<br />
====Standing Ticks====<br />
*Standing short -> SPD <BR><br />
*Standing jab -> SPD <BR><br />
<br />
====Crouching Ticks====<br />
*Crouching forward -> SPD <BR><br />
*Crouching short -> SPD <BR><br />
*Crouching jab -> SPD <BR><br />
<br />
Effective ticking is all about learning the timing of these common ticks. If you do the tick too quickly, you will get the wiff animation for the SPD and you will be left wide open to attack. If you do the tick too slowly, your opponent will be able to either jump out of the tick or attack you. In contrast, the only way to counter a perfectly timed tick throw is to use a reversal. Learning the timing for these ticks is crucial since they are the core basics to Zangief's tick mix-up. If you have these down, then you should be able to learn his tick mix-up much more quickly.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Pesch|Pesch]]<br />
<br />
Other notable crouching ticks: meaty c.fierce -> SPD, c.strong/meaty c.strong -> SPD<br />
These ticks setup really good frame advantage situations and can mess up your opponents reversal timing. This really holds true for the meaty c.fierce tick since your opponent is left in block/hit stun for so long. Depending on the character Gief is fighting against the risk/reward is pretty high: If the meaty fierce hits, you get damage from the fierce and SPD. If you mistime the meaty, gief can be left in a very large disadvantage situation where he's left open to attacks (sweeps, some specials, supers).<br />
<br />
--[[User:Caliagent|Caliagent]] 17:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
==Advanced Strategy==<br />
<br />
==Combos==<br />
Zangief only has a few cancelable moves, but his normals are remarkably linkable, so he still has some big combos. I'm going to put down all of his links (--) and cancels (xx) that combo and then I'll note a couple of his most-used combos. For moves that link into multiple things, I'll put the standing moves they link into first, the crouching moves second, and the special moves third.<br />
<br />
===Links===<br />
<br />
*Close standing jab -- standing jab<br />
<br />
*Far standing jab -- standing jab<br />
<br />
*Standing strong -- standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward<br />
<br />
*Standing strong -- crouching fierce/crouching short/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
*Standing strong -- green hand<br />
<br />
*Far standing short -- standing jab/standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward<br />
<br />
*Far standing short -- crouching jab/crouching strong/crouching fierce/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
*Far standing short -- green hand<br />
<br />
*Close standing forward -- standing jab/crouching jab<br />
<br />
*Crouching jab -- standing jab/standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward<br />
<br />
*Crouching jab -- crouching jab/crouching strong/crouching fierce/crouching short/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
===Cancels===<br />
<br />
*Close standing jab xx green hand/lariat<br />
<br />
*Far standing jab xx green hand<br />
<br />
*Crouching jab xx green hand/lariat<br />
<br />
*Crouching short xx green hand/lariat<br />
<br />
*Crouching forward xx green hand/lariat<br />
<br />
===Most Used Combos===<br />
<br />
*(Crossup fierce splash), crouching jab -- crouching jab -- crouching jab -- crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
*(Crossup fierce splash), crouching jab -- crouching jab -- far standing short -- crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
*(Crossup fierce splash), standing strong -- far standing short -- crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
*(Crossup fierce splash), standing strong -- crouching forward xx green hand<br />
<br />
*(Crossup fierce splash), crouching forward xx lariat<br />
<br />
*(Jumping fierce), standing strong -- crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
=Match-ups=<br />
<br />
== Vs. Balrog (boxer): ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Blanka: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Cammy: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Chun-Li: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Dee Jay: ==<br />
<br />
You will have 2 parts to this match. <br />
<br />
Part 1.<br />
<br />
DJ has you zoned outside of his slide range. He will continually throw maxouts and then aa you if you jump or sweep you when you try to advance with lariat. And he can even st.RH you while the lariat is recovering and as an antiair from max range. This can be very difficult to get through. What I will do is position my self just out side of his max slide range and kkk lariat his maxout. If you guess right you can then begin to smother him with j.shorts and splashes and don’t forget the d.lk in the air. It will stuff or trade with the slide. Once you get in get the sweep in or a MP throw. This will allow you to advance on him when he is down. And that leads to part 2. If you don’t get the sweep/throw you will be reset and back in part one all over again. <br />
<br />
Part 2<br />
<br />
When you get your knock down force DJ into the corner. DJ is then at a disadvantage you can cr.jab him on wake up and it will strop his rising dredkicks and normal dredkicks clean and set you up for a SPD. All Dj can do at this point is attempt a reversal throw or super if he as meter. But being that DJ builds meter rather slow I doubt he will have it at this time in the match. So now you are in a guessing game with DJ and Gief has the upper hand. If you predict right DJ will be dead in 2-3 rotations of this.<br />
<br />
If gief does not get DJ cornered with a knockdown he is at a great disadvantage. I would say its 70/30 DJ. When Gief has DJ down in the corner it flips 70/30 Gief.<br />
<br />
--[[User:CigarBoB|CigarBoB]]<br />
<br />
== Vs. Dhalsim: ==<br />
<br />
You want to get in, but don't feel like you need to constantly be walking or jumping toward Sim, guessing when to jump and which jumping attack to use and so forth. The number one mistake in playing against Sim with a character Sim can zone out well is thinking that you need to run at him; Sim will eat you up if you do that. <br />
<br />
Instead, try to make Sim scared about throwing out limbs all the time by counterpoking, especially in ways that knock him down. If you think he's going to do any far crouching attack, you can beat it out and knock him down with crouching roundhouse or just hit him and maybe cancel into running bear grab if close enough with crouching forward/short or standing short. If you think he's gonna do far standing roundhouse, do your standing roundhouse, punch lariat, crouching fierce, crouching strong, or crouching jab. If you think he's gonna do far standing fierce, do kick lariat, crouching roundhouse, crouching jab, or standing short. If you think he's gonna do far standing forward, do crouching jab, crouching strong, standing roundhouse, or punch lariat. You have attacks to beat each of Sim's attacks at particular ranges and timings, so figure that out, it's all very location- and situation-specific. <br />
<br />
You also have air attacks that beat or trade with most of Sim's antiairs and Sim has antiairs that beat or trade with your air attacks, it all just depends on the spacing. You can use any of jumping down+short, jumping short, jumping down+forward, jumping forward, jumping roundhouse, jumping fierce, and jumping fierce splash against any of Sim's standing short, standing forward, standing roundhouse, back+short, back+forward, back+jab, down-back+jab, or jump back fierce. This is less effective than grounded counterpoking because you can't get a knockdown, it doesn't help you in positioning if you just trade attacks, and some of Sim's antiairs beat all of your crap in some situations, so don't depend on this quite as much.<br />
<br />
You win in damage with both grounded counterpokes and jumping attacks almost regardless of what's trading, even sometimes in the case of your crouching jab v Sim's far standing fierce if random damage is on your side, so don't be scared about that, just realize that it's hard to keep your damage lead and you're not likely to win unless you get in. The name of the game in this matchup is still you trying to get in. <br />
<br />
Also be aware that one knock down from a distance is not enough for you to get all the way in on Sim, so don't depend on trying to walk up with a tick into spd after one knockdown. The Sim player will probably just jump away or antiair your jumping tick with down+back jab or back+jab or super or something. You can choose between walking up farther, blocking, walking up with another crouching roundhouse, doing a couple green hands to get closer, or if Sim is expecting an attack or something, doing running bear grab or walk-up spd. There's a guessing game here, so try to use it to your advantage.<br />
<br />
Random other stuff:<br />
<br />
When you have Sim cornered and want to tick him to death, just tick him with max range standing jab. This is safer because it can't be reversal thrown by Sim (since you're out of his range), he can't slide under it like he can some of your jumping ticks, and if Sim does reversal teleport you're in a position onscreen that'll let you deal better with any of Sim's teleport locations and you have more time to react than you would if you were landing from a jumping attack. <br />
<br />
Also, whenever you attack Sim on his wakeup, whether for a knockdown or a tick, always be sure that you do it as a real meaty. Sim doesn't have a reversal super, so he has no good reversal against meaty attacks other than teleport, but if you do your attack even a frame after he wakes up he can start up his fully invincible super to do 50% if you're on the ground or 30% if it juggles you in the air. This is something you have to worry about when trying to jump at Sim in any non-meaty situation, although because of its motion and startup it's not useful for the Sim player unless he's specifically looking to use it.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
== Vs. E. Honda: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Fei Long: ==<br />
<br />
I am going to tell your right now, Fei gives Gief HELL. Especially NEW Fei. Your only hope is to knock him down and play wake up mind games and go for crossups whenever possible. Lariats are almost useless at midrange because Fei's chicken wing kick can counter it clean most of the time and sometimes combo into rekka punches off of it. <br />
<br />
So you're going to have to play this one extra smart and choose your targets perfectly. Fei can't rush at you with rekka punches like he does against other fighters because your lariat can counter it clean. Once fei is on the floor he's in your world for just a few seconds but you have to fuck with their heads by mixing up your tick throws, waiting for Fei to counter with whiffed flame kicks and punish him when he misses. But thats the thing, if you face a Fei with good reversal skills it's going to make it harder for you to land a tick SPD. <br />
<br />
If you must jump at Fei do so by using Giefs knee short or his body splash because this makes his jumps smaller and gives fei much less time to counter with a flame kick.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jumpsuit|Jumpsuit]]<br />
<br />
== Vs. Guile: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Ken: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. M. Bison (dictator): ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Ryu: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Sagat: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. T. Hawk: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Vega (claw): ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Zangief: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. O. Sagat: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. O. T. Hawk: ==<br />
<br />
===Serious Advantage Match-ups===<br />
None!<br />
<br />
===Advantage Match-ups===<br />
Ryu, Boxer<br />
<br />
===Fair Match-ups===<br />
Dictator, Ken, Hawk<br />
<br />
===Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
DeeJay<br />
<br />
===Serious Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
Claw, Blanka, Chun, Cammy, Fei Long, Guile, Honda, Sim, O Sagat<br />
<br />
-UltraDavid<br />
<br />
{{Super Turbo}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo]]<br />
[[Category:Zangief]]</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo/Zangief&diff=30356Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/Zangief2008-10-10T21:15:46Z<p>Gargamuza: /* Match-ups */</p>
<hr />
<div><!-- Portrait graphic near top, added by Raisin --><br />
[[Image:ST_Zangief_portrait.png|right|Zangief's portrait in Super Turbo]]<br />
<br />
==Introduction==<br />
<br />
==Color Options==<br />
===New Zangief Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Zangief_new_colors.png|New Zangief's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
To choose the "Hold" color, press and hold any button except Start for 2 seconds. To choose any other color, simply tap the desired button.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 30, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
===Old Zangief Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Zangief_old_colors.png|Old Zangief's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
Old Zangief's input code is LRRR. Pressing Short simultaneously with Jab or Fierce will give you the alternate color.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 30, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
==Moves List==<br />
===Normal Moves===<br />
====Throws====<br />
As the prototypical grappler, Gief has the most normal throws in the game and even a couple of the best in his strong and roundhouse throws. That said, because of his excellent command grabs, his normal throws go mostly unused.<br />
<br />
Toward/back + strong: Zangief sits on the opponent's head, opponent always stays in front of Zangief. Sets up a crossup fierce splash when unteched. Zangief's most commonly-used normal throw.<br />
<br />
Toward/back + fierce: Gief does, I don't know, something to the opponent's face for multiple hits. Crappy range.<br />
<br />
Toward/back + forward: Zangief throws the opponent over his head, opponent always ends up behind him. Not as useful as strong because the opponent is thrown too far for a splash, but if Gief is in the corner and you want the opponent cornered, here ya go.<br />
<br />
Toward/back + roundhouse: Gief bites the opponent for multiple hits. For a normal throw, this has great range and does great damage, and it would be awesome for any other character, but again, if you're going to grab, the command grabs are the ways to go. <br />
<br />
Down + strong: Crouching version of the fierce throw. This sometimes comes out when you want a crouching strong poke, and that's fine because the throw does more damage, but it's never used on purpose. <br />
<br />
Down + fierce: Same deal, except you very rarely press crouching fierce, so you'll probably never see it in-game.<br />
<br />
(Gief and opponent in air) Toward/back + roundhouse/forward: Zangief tosses over his head in the direction pressed. Ok range, but very rarely used.<br />
<br />
(Gief and opponent in air) Toward/back + strong/fierce: Gief throws the opponent down in the direction pressed. This is the better airthrow because it leaves the opponent closer, but it's still very rarely used.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
====Command Normals====<br />
Toward/back + strong/fierce: Gief does a stupid little hop. The move has like no range, beats just about nothing out, and is almost never used on purpose. It was probably meant as a way for Zangief to be able to hop over opponents' low normals, but it's not very good at doing that. Mostly it's just an annoyance.<br />
<br />
Jump straight up strong/fierce: Gief does a sort of headbutt thing. In the Japanese version it's often an instant dizzy, but in the American version it got nerfed, so it's not very useful.<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
Spinning pile driver (360 + punch): A command throw with great range that does great damage; this is Zangief's most important move. The jab version has the best range but does the worst damage and fierce has the worst range but does the best damage, although the range and damage don't vary all that much. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack, like a dragon punch.<br />
<br />
Atomic suplex (close 360 + kick): This command throw is more damaging than spd, but its range is much smaller. If you're right up close, go for this for more guaranteed damage. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack.<br />
<br />
Running bear grab (far 360 + kick): Gief runs a little distance, and as soon as he gets close enough he grabs the opponent. This does less damage than spd and spd's range is only a little smaller than this move's max running range, but it's still useful in some matchups and in surprise situations. The startup time means the opponent can jump or even hit Gief out of it with a normal.<br />
<br />
Punch lariat (Jab + Strong + Fierce): Gief spins around with hands a-flailing, going through fireballs, high tiger shots, some supers, and most high- and mid- level normals. The active hitbox extends to all of the area around Gief's head but only to one of Gief's hands, so although the hand with the hitbox beats just about every non-invincible move in its range, the chance of that happening is a little less than 50%; as a result, while the lariat can beat things like Honda's headbutt, it does so only occasionally. This has no lower-body invincibility.<br />
<br />
Kick lariat (short + forward + roundhouse): Like the punch lariat, but this one has a shorter duration and doesn't move laterally as far. It also hits "lower"; for example, while punch lariat beats Boxer's far standing fierce better, kick lariat beats Claw's crouching strong better. This go through Sagat's low tiger shots, and while it loses to moves you need to block low, it does go through a weird assortment of "lower" level normals.<br />
<br />
Green hand aka banishing fist (toward, down-toward, down + punch): The fist beats out fireballs, but only while it's glowing. It's used to move through fireballs, but it's generally not as good at that as the lariat because of its startup and recovery. The hitbox at the fist is really robust, so it beats out just about everything if timed right. The move is mainly used as a quick way to get Gief into better range after a command grab.<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Super Art===<br />
<br />
720 (two joystick rotations plus any punch button): The range on this thing is more like that of the atomic suplex than spd, but it can take off up to about 60% of the opponent's life. It's used pretty rarely because you need to be so close to land it, but if you get a chance, go for it. If done after a tick, the opponent can only escape by doing a reversal-timed instantly-invincible attack.<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Move Analysis===<br />
==Combos==<br />
Zangief only has a few cancelable moves, but his normals are remarkably linkable, so he still has some big combos. I'm going to put down all of his links (--) and cancels (xx) that combo and then I'll note a couple of his most-used combos. For moves that link into multiple things, I'll put the standing moves they link into first, the crouching moves second, and the special moves third.<br />
<br />
====Links====<br />
<br />
Close standing jab -- standing jab<br />
<br />
Far standing jab -- standing jab<br />
<br />
Standing strong -- standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward<br />
<br />
Standing strong -- crouching fierce/crouching short/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
Standing strong -- green hand<br />
<br />
Far standing short -- standing jab/standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward<br />
<br />
Far standing short -- crouching jab/crouching strong/crouching fierce/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
Far standing short -- green hand<br />
<br />
Close standing forward -- standing jab/crouching jab<br />
<br />
Crouching jab -- standing jab/standing strong/standing fierce/standing short/standing forward<br />
<br />
Crouching jab -- crouching jab/crouching strong/crouching fierce/crouching short/crouching forward/crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
====Cancels====<br />
<br />
Close standing jab xx green hand/lariat<br />
<br />
Far standing jab xx green hand<br />
<br />
Crouching jab xx green hand/lariat<br />
<br />
Crouching short xx green hand/lariat<br />
<br />
Crouching forward xx green hand/lariat<br />
<br />
====Most Used Combos====<br />
<br />
(Crossup fierce splash), crouching jab -- crouching jab -- crouching jab -- crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
(Crossup fierce splash), crouching jab -- crouching jab -- far standing short -- crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
(Crossup fierce splash), standing strong -- far standing short -- crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
(Crossup fierce splash), standing strong -- crouching forward xx green hand<br />
<br />
(Crossup fierce splash), crouching forward xx lariat<br />
<br />
(Jumping fierce), standing strong -- crouching roundhouse<br />
<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
==Frame Data==<br />
===Normals===<br />
===Throws===<br />
===Command Normals===<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
===Super Art===<br />
===Additional Frame Data===<br />
==Strategies==<br />
===Overview===<br />
Zangief's game revolves around landing his command grabs. He wants to be up close to the opponent ticking into spd or getting a running bear grab. Gief uses his lariats and green hand to get into footsie range, where he uses his excellent crouching roundhouse, standing short, and standing forward pokes as well as lariats to get a knockdown or set up a spinning pile driver. <br />
===Basics===<br />
===Zoning===<br />
===Ticking===<br />
Ticking is the action of following a blocked move with a throw so that the opponent is forced to take damage even though they successfully blocked your attack. Since Zangief relies heavily on ticks into his SPD, ticking is an important part of learning how to use Zangief. While Zangief can tick from almost all his moves, the following are his most common ticks and a good Zangief player should be able to do them all. The sections and the ticks in each section are roughly in order from easiest to most difficult.<br />
<br />
====Ticks from the Air====<br />
*Jumping Short/Forward/Roundhouse -> SPD <BR><br />
*Down+Jumping Short/Forward (Knee Press) -> SPD <BR><br />
*Jumping Down+Fierce (Chest Press) -> SPD <BR><br />
*Jumping Fierce -> SPD <BR><br />
<br />
====Standing Ticks====<br />
*Standing short -> SPD <BR><br />
*Standing jab -> SPD <BR><br />
<br />
====Crouching Ticks====<br />
*Crouching forward -> SPD <BR><br />
*Crouching short -> SPD <BR><br />
*Crouching jab -> SPD <BR><br />
<br />
Effective ticking is all about learning the timing of these common ticks. If you do the tick too quickly, you will get the wiff animation for the SPD and you will be left wide open to attack. If you do the tick too slowly, your opponent will be able to either jump out of the tick or attack you. In contrast, the only way to counter a perfectly timed tick throw is to use a reversal. Learning the timing for these ticks is crucial since they are the core basics to Zangief's tick mix-up. If you have these down, then you should be able to learn his tick mix-up much more quickly.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Pesch|Pesch]]<br />
<br />
<br />
Other notable crouching ticks: meaty c.fierce -> SPD, c.strong/meaty c.strong -> SPD<br />
These ticks setup really good frame advantage situations and can mess up your opponents reversal timing. This really holds true for the meaty c.fierce tick since your opponent is left in block/hit stun for so long. Depending on the character Gief is fighting against the risk/reward is pretty high: If the meaty fierce hits, you get damage from the fierce and SPD. If you mistime the meaty, gief can be left in a very large disadvantage situation where he's left open to attacks (sweeps, some specials, supers).<br />
<br />
--[[User:Caliagent|Caliagent]] 17:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)<br />
<br />
===Mixups===<br />
===Additional Notes===<br />
<br />
=Match-ups=<br />
<br />
== Vs. Balrog (boxer): ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Blanka: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Cammy: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Chun-Li: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Dee Jay: ==<br />
<br />
You will have 2 parts to this match. <br />
<br />
Part 1.<br />
<br />
DJ has you zoned outside of his slide range. He will continually throw maxouts and then aa you if you jump or sweep you when you try to advance with lariat. And he can even st.RH you while the lariat is recovering and as an antiair from max range. This can be very difficult to get through. What I will do is position my self just out side of his max slide range and kkk lariat his maxout. If you guess right you can then begin to smother him with j.shorts and splashes and don’t forget the d.lk in the air. It will stuff or trade with the slide. Once you get in get the sweep in or a MP throw. This will allow you to advance on him when he is down. And that leads to part 2. If you don’t get the sweep/throw you will be reset and back in part one all over again. <br />
<br />
Part 2<br />
<br />
When you get your knock down force DJ into the corner. DJ is then at a disadvantage you can cr.jab him on wake up and it will strop his rising dredkicks and normal dredkicks clean and set you up for a SPD. All Dj can do at this point is attempt a reversal throw or super if he as meter. But being that DJ builds meter rather slow I doubt he will have it at this time in the match. So now you are in a guessing game with DJ and Gief has the upper hand. If you predict right DJ will be dead in 2-3 rotations of this.<br />
<br />
If gief does not get DJ cornered with a knockdown he is at a great disadvantage. I would say its 70/30 DJ. When Gief has DJ down in the corner it flips 70/30 Gief.<br />
<br />
--[[User:CigarBoB|CigarBoB]]<br />
<br />
== Vs. Dhalsim: ==<br />
<br />
You want to get in, but don't feel like you need to constantly be walking or jumping toward Sim, guessing when to jump and which jumping attack to use and so forth. The number one mistake in playing against Sim with a character Sim can zone out well is thinking that you need to run at him; Sim will eat you up if you do that. <br />
<br />
Instead, try to make Sim scared about throwing out limbs all the time by counterpoking, especially in ways that knock him down. If you think he's going to do any far crouching attack, you can beat it out and knock him down with crouching roundhouse or just hit him and maybe cancel into running bear grab if close enough with crouching forward/short or standing short. If you think he's gonna do far standing roundhouse, do your standing roundhouse, punch lariat, crouching fierce, crouching strong, or crouching jab. If you think he's gonna do far standing fierce, do kick lariat, crouching roundhouse, crouching jab, or standing short. If you think he's gonna do far standing forward, do crouching jab, crouching strong, standing roundhouse, or punch lariat. You have attacks to beat each of Sim's attacks at particular ranges and timings, so figure that out, it's all very location- and situation-specific. <br />
<br />
You also have air attacks that beat or trade with most of Sim's antiairs and Sim has antiairs that beat or trade with your air attacks, it all just depends on the spacing. You can use any of jumping down+short, jumping short, jumping down+forward, jumping forward, jumping roundhouse, jumping fierce, and jumping fierce splash against any of Sim's standing short, standing forward, standing roundhouse, back+short, back+forward, back+jab, down-back+jab, or jump back fierce. This is less effective than grounded counterpoking because you can't get a knockdown, it doesn't help you in positioning if you just trade attacks, and some of Sim's antiairs beat all of your crap in some situations, so don't depend on this quite as much.<br />
<br />
You win in damage with both grounded counterpokes and jumping attacks almost regardless of what's trading, even sometimes in the case of your crouching jab v Sim's far standing fierce if random damage is on your side, so don't be scared about that, just realize that it's hard to keep your damage lead and you're not likely to win unless you get in. The name of the game in this matchup is still you trying to get in. <br />
<br />
Also be aware that one knock down from a distance is not enough for you to get all the way in on Sim, so don't depend on trying to walk up with a tick into spd after one knockdown. The Sim player will probably just jump away or antiair your jumping tick with down+back jab or back+jab or super or something. You can choose between walking up farther, blocking, walking up with another crouching roundhouse, doing a couple green hands to get closer, or if Sim is expecting an attack or something, doing running bear grab or walk-up spd. There's a guessing game here, so try to use it to your advantage.<br />
<br />
Random other stuff:<br />
<br />
When you have Sim cornered and want to tick him to death, just tick him with max range standing jab. This is safer because it can't be reversal thrown by Sim (since you're out of his range), he can't slide under it like he can some of your jumping ticks, and if Sim does reversal teleport you're in a position onscreen that'll let you deal better with any of Sim's teleport locations and you have more time to react than you would if you were landing from a jumping attack. <br />
<br />
Also, whenever you attack Sim on his wakeup, whether for a knockdown or a tick, always be sure that you do it as a real meaty. Sim doesn't have a reversal super, so he has no good reversal against meaty attacks other than teleport, but if you do your attack even a frame after he wakes up he can start up his fully invincible super to do 50% if you're on the ground or 30% if it juggles you in the air. This is something you have to worry about when trying to jump at Sim in any non-meaty situation, although because of its motion and startup it's not useful for the Sim player unless he's specifically looking to use it.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
== Vs. E. Honda: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Fei Long: ==<br />
<br />
I am going to tell your right now, Fei gives Gief HELL. Especially NEW Fei. Your only hope is to knock him down and play wake up mind games and go for crossups whenever possible. Lariats are almost useless at midrange because Fei's chicken wing kick can counter it clean most of the time and sometimes combo into rekka punches off of it. <br />
<br />
So you're going to have to play this one extra smart and choose your targets perfectly. Fei can't rush at you with rekka punches like he does against other fighters because your lariat can counter it clean. Once fei is on the floor he's in your world for just a few seconds but you have to fuck with their heads by mixing up your tick throws, waiting for Fei to counter with whiffed flame kicks and punish him when he misses. But thats the thing, if you face a Fei with good reversal skills it's going to make it harder for you to land a tick SPD. <br />
<br />
If you must jump at Fei do so by using Giefs knee short or his body splash because this makes his jumps smaller and gives fei much less time to counter with a flame kick.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Jumpsuit|Jumpsuit]]<br />
<br />
== Vs. Guile: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Ken: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. M. Bison (dictator): ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Ryu: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Sagat: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. T. Hawk: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Vega (claw): ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. Zangief: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. O. Sagat: ==<br />
<br />
== Vs. O. T. Hawk: ==<br />
<br />
===Serious Advantage Match-ups===<br />
None!<br />
<br />
===Advantage Match-ups===<br />
Ryu, Boxer<br />
<br />
===Fair Match-ups===<br />
Dictator, Ken, Hawk<br />
<br />
===Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
DeeJay<br />
<br />
===Serious Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
Claw, Blanka, Chun, Cammy, Fei Long, Guile, Honda, Sim, O Sagat<br />
<br />
-UltraDavid<br />
<br />
{{Super Turbo}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo]]<br />
[[Category:Zangief]]</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo/Dee_Jay&diff=30355Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/Dee Jay2008-10-10T16:40:21Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
<hr />
<div><!-- Portrait graphic near top, added by Raisin --><br />
[[Image:ST_DeeJay_portrait.png|right|DeeJay's portrait in Super Turbo]]<br />
<br />
==Introduction==<br />
<br />
==Color Options==<br />
===New DeeJay Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_DeeJay_new_colors.png|New DeeJay's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
To choose the "Hold" color, press and hold any button except Start for 2 seconds. To choose any other color, simply tap the desired button.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 8, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
===Old DeeJay Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_DeeJay_old_colors.png|Old DeeJay's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
Old DeeJay's input code is DDUU. Pressing Short simultaneously with Jab or Fierce will give you the alternate color.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 8, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
==Move Analysis==<br />
===Normal Moves===<br />
<br />
===Command Normals===<br />
<br />
*<b>Knee Shot (ニーショット):</b> in air, d + LK<br />
<br />
===Normal Throws===<br />
<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
<br />
*<b>Max Out / Air Slasher (エアスラッシャー):</b> charge b, f + P<br />
Punch strength determines speed<br />
*<b>Double Rolling Sobat (ダブルローリングソバット):</b> charge b, f + K<br />
Short version hits once, Forward and Roundhouse versions hit twice<br />
*<b>Machine Gun Upper (マシンガナッパー):</b> charge d, u + P (mash all three punches)<br />
This move is one of the strangest in the game. Proper technique is required to get the full four hits of the move to combo. Piano tap all three punches until you see the third hit connect, and then STOP.<br />
*<b>Maximum Jackknife (ジャクナイフマキシマム):</b> charge d, u + K<br />
Forward and Roundhouse versions are juggleable. Short version hits once, Forward version hits twice, Roundhouse version hits three times. Can juggle with super after for two more hits.<br />
<br />
===Super Move===<br />
<br />
*<b>Sobat Carnival (ソバットカーニバル):</b> charge b, f, b, f + K<br />
<br />
== The Basics ==<br />
<br />
== Advanced Strategy ==<br />
<br />
==Combos==<br />
<br />
Non-Dizzy Combos<br />
*Cross-up j.forward, c.jabx2, s.strong, RH sobat (second hit is random;can dizzy)<br />
*Cross-up j.forward, c.jabx2, RH sobat, super<br />
*Forward upkick, RH upkick<br />
*J.RH, c.fierce, sobat<br />
*Super, upkick<br />
<br />
Dizzy Combos (TOD)<br />
*Cross-up j.forward, cr.Fierce, machine gun upper (2-hits)<br /><br />
*Cross-up j.forward, cr.jab, machine gun upper (4 hits)<br />
<br />
[[User:X-static|X-static]] (Jan 12, 2008)<br />
<br />
== Attack Info and Frame Data ==<br />
<br />
==Match-ups==<br />
<br />
===Blanka===<br />
<br />
This match is similar to the Honda match below. It's an easy match unless Blanka is able to cross you up with his godly j.short. Use your max-outs to keep him away; he won't be able to slide under easily like he would against Guile; he can still do it, but it isn't easy. His main option is to jump at you with his far reaching j.RH, which can be beat with DJ's slide. If you block a ball, s.RH will punish it.<br />
<br />
===Dhalsim===<br />
<br />
This is a tough match, but it is winnable. Use max-outs to trade with yoga fires. Stay at a distance and beat his limbs with C.strong and c.fierce. You can also try to jump over his fires and kick him with DJ's long reaching j.RH. If he tries to use his drills, s.strong can beat them. If he gets knocked down, you can go for a cross-up or safe jump jab. Dhalsim's only reversal, other than super, is his teleport, so his wakeup defense isn't that great. <br />
<br />
This match is actually pretty good for DJ. He has an easier time dealing with the yoga master than most characters.<br />
<br />
===E. Honda===<br />
<br />
E. Honda is an easy match for DJ; his best in the game. Just shoot out those FBs. The fatness of both Honda's ass and DJ's max-outs works in favor of DJ. For anti-air, his slide works wonders. Use it against his buttdrops too. Jump RH also works when Honda is on his way up way up.<br />
<br />
Diagonal jump jab BEATS HIS HEADBUTT! Remember this. You can jump away to safety if he gets in too close. C.fierce also beats the headbutt. <br />
<br />
Remember, although you have a major advantage, if he knocks you down in the corner, you are screwed.<br />
<br />
===Guile===<br />
<br />
This is a good match for DJ; it's slightly in DJ's favor. DJ can counter a lot of Guile's main attacks: slides go under sonic booms, c.strong can beat his c.forward. Keep pressuring him up close using c.strongs, c.shorts and c.RH.<br />
<br />
===Ken===<br />
<br />
See Ryu<br />
<br />
===Ryu===<br />
<br />
The shotos can give DJ some problems. You will need to be the aggressor in this match. You will need to use your Max-outs, using slides in between to gain ground. When in place, a j.RH over a FB will kick him right in the face. Make sure to time this. Once you’re in, trip him and then go for a cross-up TOD (see combos). Also, c.strong will beat shoto c.forwards. If you get in a fireball trap, note that his short upkick can go through FIERCE fireballs.<br />
<br />
===O. Sagat===<br />
<br />
Short sobats and short upkicks are good for going over low tigers. After you get in, do what you would do against the shotos.<br />
<br />
===Zangief===<br />
<br />
Two words: BE CAREFUL. This is a much harder match than it seems; it is very unstable. If he gets in, you are dead. If he stays out, he's dead. Simple enough, eh?<br />
<br />
Keep him out with max-outs. Trip his lariats with your slide. If he jumps, use the many AA tools at your disposal. Not much too it, but don't get complacent! You normals do not have the reach of Guile, so the slides much be used wisely. Fire a FB into the lariat before it ends instead of using the slide when you see fit. c.strong can beat some of his low normals and c.fierce can beat his s.forward.<br />
<br />
If he is able to get in on you, pray. DJ does not have a reliable reversal other than his super; he may have a sonic boom, but he sure as hell doesn't have a flashkick. He will tick you to death. A short sobat can beat his low normals. Use this to get you out of or avoid this bad situation. <br />
<br />
[[User:X-static|X-static]] (Jan 6, 2008)<br />
<br />
===Serious Advantage Match-ups===<br />
E.Honda<br />
===Advantage Match-ups===<br />
Blanka<br /><br />
Cammy<br /><br />
Fei-Long<br /><br />
T.Hawk<br /><br />
Zangief<br />
===Fair Match-ups===<br />
Chun-Li<br /><br />
Dictator<br /><br />
Guile<br /><br />
Ken<br /><br />
Ryu<br /><br />
Sagat<br />
===Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
Boxer<br /><br />
Claw<br /><br />
Dhalsim<br />
===Serious Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
<br /><br />
<br /><br />
<br />
{{Super Turbo}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo]]<br />
[[Category:Dee Jay]]</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo/Dee_Jay&diff=30354Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/Dee Jay2008-10-10T16:30:22Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
<hr />
<div><!-- Portrait graphic near top, added by Raisin --><br />
[[Image:ST_DeeJay_portrait.png|right|DeeJay's portrait in Super Turbo]]<br />
<br />
==Introduction==<br />
<br />
==Color Options==<br />
===New DeeJay Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_DeeJay_new_colors.png|New DeeJay's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
To choose the "Hold" color, press and hold any button except Start for 2 seconds. To choose any other color, simply tap the desired button.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 8, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
===Old DeeJay Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_DeeJay_old_colors.png|Old DeeJay's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
Old DeeJay's input code is DDUU. Pressing Short simultaneously with Jab or Fierce will give you the alternate color.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 8, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
==Moves List==<br />
===Normal Moves===<br />
====Throws====<br />
====Command Normals====<br />
*<b>Knee Shot (ニーショット):</b> in air, d + LK<br />
====Target Combos====<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
*<b>Max Out / Air Slasher (エアスラッシャー):</b> charge b, f + P<br />
Punch strength determines speed<br />
*<b>Double Rolling Sobat (ダブルローリングソバット):</b> charge b, f + K<br />
Short version hits once, Forward and Roundhouse versions hit twice<br />
*<b>Machine Gun Upper (マシンガナッパー):</b> charge d, u + P (mash all three punches)<br />
This move is one of the strangest in the game. Proper technique is required to get the full four hits of the move to combo. Piano tap all three punches until you see the third hit connect, and then STOP.<br />
*<b>Maximum Jackknife (ジャクナイフマキシマム):</b> charge d, u + K<br />
Forward and Roundhouse versions are juggleable. Short version hits once, Forward version hits twice, Roundhouse version hits three times. Can juggle with super after for two more hits.<br />
<br />
===Super Art===<br />
*<b>Sobat Carnival (ソバットカーニバル):</b> charge b, f, b, f + K<br />
===Move Analysis===<br />
<br />
==Combos==<br />
Non-Dizzy Combos<br />
*Cross-up j.forward, c.jabx2, s.strong, RH sobat (second hit is random;can dizzy)<br />
*Cross-up j.forward, c.jabx2, RH sobat, super<br />
*Forward upkick, RH upkick<br />
*J.RH, c.fierce, sobat<br />
*Super, upkick<br />
<br />
Dizzy Combos (TOD)<br />
*Cross-up j.forward, cr.Fierce, machine gun upper (2-hits)<br /><br />
*Cross-up j.forward, cr.jab, machine gun upper (4 hits)<br />
<br />
[[User:X-static|X-static]] (Jan 12, 2008)<br />
<br />
==Frame Data==<br />
===Normals===<br />
===Throws===<br />
===Command Normals===<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
===Super Art===<br />
===Additional Frame Data===<br />
==Strategies==<br />
===Overview===<br />
===Basics===<br />
===Zoning===<br />
===Mixups===<br />
===Additional Notes===<br />
==Match-ups==<br />
**'''Balrog (Boxer)'''<br />
**'''Blanka'''<br />
<br />
This match is similar to the Honda match below. It's an easy match unless Blanka is able to cross you up with his godly j.short. Use your max-outs to keep him away; he won't be able to slide under easily like he would against Guile; he can still do it, but it isn't easy. His main option is to jump at you with his far reaching j.RH, which can be beat with DJ's slide. If you block a ball, s.RH will punish it.<br />
<br />
**'''Cammy'''<br />
**'''Chun-Li'''<br />
**'''Dee Jay'''<br />
**'''Dhalsim'''<br />
<br />
This is a tough match, but it is winnable. Use max-outs to trade with yoga fires. Stay at a distance and beat his limbs with C.strong and c.fierce. You can also try to jump over his fires and kick him with DJ's long reaching j.RH. If he tries to use his drills, s.strong can beat them. If he gets knocked down, you can go for a cross-up or safe jump jab. Dhalsim's only reversal, other than super, is his teleport, so his wakeup defense isn't that great. <br />
<br />
This match is actually pretty good for DJ. He has an easier time dealing with the yoga master than most characters.<br />
<br />
**'''E. Honda'''<br />
<br />
E. Honda is an easy match for DJ; his best in the game. Just shoot out those FBs. The fatness of both Honda's ass and DJ's max-outs works in favor of DJ. For anti-air, his slide works wonders. Use it against his buttdrops too. Jump RH also works when Honda is on his way up way up.<br />
<br />
Diagonal jump jab BEATS HIS HEADBUTT! Remember this. You can jump away to safety if he gets in too close. C.fierce also beats the headbutt. <br />
<br />
Remember, although you have a major advantage, if he knocks you down in the corner, you are screwed.<br />
<br />
**'''Guile'''<br />
<br />
This is a good match for DJ; it's slightly in DJ's favor. DJ can counter a lot of Guile's main attacks: slides go under sonic booms, c.strong can beat his c.forward. Keep pressuring him up close using c.strongs, c.shorts and c.RH.<br />
<br />
**'''Ken'''<br />
<br />
See Ryu<br />
<br />
**'''M. Bison (Dictator)'''<br />
**'''Ryu'''<br />
<br />
The shotos can give DJ some problems. You will need to be the aggressor in this match. You will need to use your Max-outs, using slides in between to gain ground. When in place, a j.RH over a FB will kick him right in the face. Make sure to time this. Once you’re in, trip him and then go for a cross-up TOD (see combos). Also, c.strong will beat shoto c.forwards. If you get in a fireball trap, note that his short upkick can go through FIERCE fireballs.<br />
<br />
**'''O. Sagat'''<br />
<br />
Short sobats and short upkicks are good for going over low tigers. After you get in, do what you would do against the shotos.<br />
<br />
**'''T. Hawk'''<br />
**'''Vega (Claw)'''<br />
**'''Zangief'''<br />
<br />
Two words: BE CAREFUL. This is a much harder match than it seems; it is very unstable. If he gets in, you are dead. If he stays out, he's dead. Simple enough, eh?<br />
<br />
Keep him out with max-outs. Trip his lariats with your slide. If he jumps, use the many AA tools at your disposal. Not much too it, but don't get complacent! You normals do not have the reach of Guile, so the slides much be used wisely. Fire a FB into the lariat before it ends instead of using the slide when you see fit. c.strong can beat some of his low normals and c.fierce can beat his s.forward.<br />
<br />
If he is able to get in on you, pray. DJ does not have a reliable reversal other than his super; he may have a sonic boom, but he sure as hell doesn't have a flashkick. He will tick you to death. A short sobat can beat his low normals. Use this to get you out of or avoid this bad situation. <br />
<br />
[[User:X-static|X-static]] (Jan 6, 2008)<br />
<br />
===Serious Advantage Match-ups===<br />
E.Honda<br />
===Advantage Match-ups===<br />
Blanka<br /><br />
Cammy<br /><br />
Fei-Long<br /><br />
T.Hawk<br /><br />
Zangief<br />
===Fair Match-ups===<br />
Chun-Li<br /><br />
Dictator<br /><br />
Guile<br /><br />
Ken<br /><br />
Ryu<br /><br />
Sagat<br />
===Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
Boxer<br /><br />
Claw<br /><br />
Dhalsim<br />
===Serious Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
{{Super Turbo}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo]]<br />
[[Category:E. Honda]]</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo/E._Honda&diff=30349Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/E. Honda2008-10-08T21:01:53Z<p>Gargamuza: /* Combos */</p>
<hr />
<div><!-- Portrait graphic near title, added by Raisin --><br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_portrait.png|right|E.Honda's portrait in Super Turbo]]<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
<br />
Honda is a strange character. He destroys most non-fireball characters, yet he's destroyed by most non-fireball characters. He alternates between rushdown and mixups to extreme turtling.<br />
<br />
If you are willing to use Honda, just be aware that fighting against good zoning characters is an extremely hard task, as his ways to get in are easily countered by good anti-air moves. You'll spend all the match patiently ''trying'' to get in once, and if you manage to get in, you have to be brutal enough and end the round right there.<br />
<br />
==Color Options==<br />
===New E.Honda Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_new_colors.png|New E.Honda's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
To choose the "Hold" color, press and hold any button except Start for 2 seconds. To choose any other color, simply tap the desired button.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 6, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
===Old E.Honda Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_old_colors.png|Old E.Honda's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
Old E.Honda's input code is UUUD. Pressing Short simultaneously with Jab or Fierce will give you the alternate color.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 6, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
==Move Analysis==<br />
<br />
===Normal Moves===<br />
<br />
===Command Normals===<br />
<br />
===Normal Throws===<br />
<br />
Fierce throw is the one you'll be using the most. It's untechable, does nice damage, and sets up crossup / walk under / tick shenanigans. You can even crossup / walk under when in the corner after a fierce grab (you can walk under, cr. RH for a crossup, or go for a crossup d + Forward, cr.Jab, Oicho, etc). <br />
<br />
Note that some characters (Balrog, Cammy, DeeJay, Vega, Fei Long) cannot be walked under outside of the corner.<br />
<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
<br />
'''Hundred Hands Slap (Tap P repeatedly)''' - Jab is stationary and a good way to turtle and build meter fast. <br />
<br />
Strong is great to pressure, ticking and chipping. It moves you forward a bit too. Except for when you are chipping, don't keep mashing (this goes for all versions really) strong so the HHS recovers very quickly, which allows you to go for a throw if you are relatively close, or a second HHS to catch your opponent if they try to retaliate. Another good pressure option is to use it after a f + roundhouse.<br />
<br />
Fierce moves you further forward than Strong, and faster too. It also has bigger priority, and is a good way to attempt to get into certain fireballers (such as Chun), especially after a neutral jumping fierce.<br />
<br />
'''Oicho Throw (f, df, d, db + P)''' - Honda's most powerful move. Easy to tick into, very good damage, high dizzy for the Fierce version, it's his main offensive weapon and can end a round by itself when in the corner.<br />
<br />
Besides of its obvious offensive uses, the Oicho Throw is also an excellent defensive tool due to a programming bug: the stored Oicho (see the Advanced Strategy section for more info).<br />
<br />
'''Headbutt (Charge b, f + P)''' - Jab headbutt will be your main defensive tool. It has invincibility on startup and has excellent vertical ''and'' horizontal range, which makes jumping in or getting in-close Honda a nearly impossible task. Learn to time your Jab headbutt and matches against non-fireballers will become way easier.<br />
<br />
Fierce version is very fast and can be used to safely pressure and punish mistakes (whiffs or people coming down from a jumping attack for example) at mid range. Avoid using it from full-screen especially if out opponent is near the corner as he can jump it on reaction and punish you afterwards. <br />
<br />
'''Sumo Smash (Charge d, u + K)''' - Short version hits on the way up (so it's a decent antiand is useful to get over projectiles from far away. Also, it's a good mixup in Oicho setups. Forward hits on the way up too, can be used to stuff projectile attempts at the right distance, and is a risky way to get over projectiles (can be punished by sweeps -shotos- and jumping attacks -Guile, DeeJay- if they see it coming). Roundhouse should be used mainly for crossups, mixups and setting ticks rather than as a way to avoid projectiles, as it is extremely easy to punish in those situations. It hits only on the way down unlike the other versions.<br />
<br />
To use as a pressure / mixup tool, it's a good idea to do cr.Short xx Smash, varying strenghts to make the opponent guess if you are going to cross-up or not, and mixing up ticks in-between.<br />
<br />
===Super Move===<br />
<br />
'''Double Sumo Smash (Charge b, f, b, f + P)''' - Honda's Super is sadly one of the worst in the game. It's extremely unsafe on block (some characters can Dragon Punch / Flash Kick after blocking the first hit, and others can punish you heavily after blocking both), the second hit will randomly miss, low priority (can be stopped by standing jabs)...<br />
<br />
On the plus side, it can go through projectiles and (this can be a downside too) sometimes it won't knock down leaving you just beside your opponent, allowing to Oicho him afterwards. Also, like Chun's super, it can be stored by doing the super motion and hold forward. But still it's a very unreliable move and you should use it sparingly.<br />
<br />
==The Basics==<br />
<br />
Honda's overall strategy has two main variations. Against non-fireballers, turtling is usually the way to go. Jab headbutt can beat practically every attempt to get into Honda, while Oicho Throw (especially when piano-ed) can take care of throw attempts, and you make things even harder to your opponents with HHS pressure (while keeping charge to headbutt / sumo smash and storing an Oicho at the same time!), which gives Honda the upper hand against most characters that lack a fireball.<br />
<br />
Against characters with projectiles things become difficult though... <br />
<br />
===Anti-Projectile Strategy===<br />
<br />
One of the major hurdles a beginner Honda player will run into is dealing with projectile spam - at the start you'll probably think its a lost cause dealing with the random hits/block damage caused due to his size, but after a while you'll learn how to deal with it.<br />
<br />
First thing to know is NEVER EVER use '''HK Sumo Splash''', that thing is serious counter bait, don't use it.<br />
<br />
'''LK Sumo Splash''' over projectiles from max distance away does very well if you are willing to "creep" towards your opponent - remember that patience will serve you well in the long run as all it takes is to win is 1 mistake or trapping the opponent in the corner and keeping them there.<br />
<br />
'''MK Sumo Splash''' is very risky, especially against shotos, but if it is used once in a while it may help gain some ground if you have the health to take the risk with.<br />
<br />
'''Straight Up j.HP -''' this is controllable, so you can move forward slightly while in the air, learning to do this is pretty essential because overuse of any type of Sumo Splash will lead to being countered all the time.<br />
<br />
'''The Super -''' Don't forget about it and remember to have a back up plan if it doesn't work correctly.<br />
<br />
'''j.LK -''' this comes in handy since makes Honda a smaller target and seems to have pretty high priority, i've seen this do pretty really well against Guile in particular.<br />
<br />
'''MP HHS -''' this isn't “avoiding” the projectile par say, but if you are willing to be a man (and have the health to back it up), you can at least trade hits from a fair distance away, this can be a psychological advantage knowing you always have a way to at least trade off in the damage department.<br />
<br />
I’ll also use the MP (and sometimes HP) HHS after a straight up j.HP, this can be decent pressure against characters with longer projectile recovery time, New Ken and New Sagat being prime targets.<br />
<br />
Another method of countering projectile spam is by simply trying to “bulldog” your way to the opponent - walk forward, block, repeat (and perhaps do the occastional poke now and then)... you'll slowly but surely back your opponent up into a corner. This is, of course, a very dangerous way of getting in, as proven in one of the A-cho tournaments, it can actually get you completely owned so only use this if you have strong reactions.<br />
<br />
As stated earlier, patience is the key against someone who knows how to use their projectiles, take your time with the confidence that you'll eventually get in (even if it takes the whole round and nearly all your health to do it) and you should go far.<br />
<br />
--[[User:RWD|RWD]]<br />
<br />
==Advanced Strategy==<br />
<br />
===Stored Oicho===<br />
<br />
The nightmare move of ST... this makes Honda an iron fortress and is arguably the most broken thing in the game - learning to use and abuse this is completely essential for high level play.<br />
<br />
Oicho is performed with a HCB + P movement right? Well, a glitch in ST makes it so Honda can store the move and use it at will - this is done by doing the HCB movement then holding onto either Back, Up-Back or Down-Back and not letting go.<br />
<br />
Why is this technique so good? Oochio is a zero frame command throw (with no whiff animation, unlike Gief's SPD) with decent range, which means under reversal circumstances it will beat every ground based attack in the game... period. This also means when Honda is knockdowned, he can store Oochio and basically be impossible to meaty attack.<br />
<br />
Other plus points is the fact when your holding onto Back/Down-Back so you are essentially charging up for Sumo Headbutt and Sumo Splash while having a perfect reversal waiting. In other words, everything you want for the "tank-like" defensive is covered, if you wanted, you could also use MP and HP slaps as a way of moving forward while keeping all 3 attacks ready.<br />
<br />
One last point; when the opponent isn't in range for an Oicho, you can use any normal attack you wish and not lose the store.<br />
<br />
===Oicho Options===<br />
<br />
Whenever you land an Oicho (stored or not) you have a whole host of options to play with, here we go:<br />
<br />
'''c.MK -''' this doesn't work on all characters and i'll update this with a list at a later date, but because Oicho does a HUGE amount of stun damage, generally, the next hit will probably dizzy the opponent.<br />
<br />
'''MP HHS -''' this is a no brainer, the lunging slaps get chip damage for free... unless your opponent is a reversal demon they'll most likely do the safe option and block.<br />
<br />
'''c.MK > MP HHS -''' an extention of the above, if the c.MK doesn't get them... the chip damage from the HHS will...<br />
<br />
'''HK Sumo Splash -''' this will cross the opponent over and probably dizzy them if it connects.<br />
<br />
'''MK Sumo Splash -''' just to mix up paranoia about the crossover HK Sumo Splash with a non-crossover Sumo Splash.<br />
<br />
'''j-d.MK (the splash) > Oicho -''' this is risky but is worth it if you connect with another Oicho afterwards.<br />
<br />
'''(in the corner) c.LK xx Sumo Splash -''' the c.LK is cancellable so it should flow like a thing of beauty for a high/low block string, can also lead to another Oochio. <br />
<br />
'''(in the corner) LP HHS -''' like the MP HHS, chip damage for all, just watch out for those reversal throws.<br />
<br />
(in the corner) Oicho Loop - see the next section...<br />
<br />
'''B/F+HK -''' the sweep of doom, use if you forget the above follow ups... >_><br />
<br />
'''c.LP > Oicho -''' this can be done when you land an Oicho close to the corner but you still switch sides with the opponent, this is done the same way as the Oicho Loop (talked about in the next section) only you can’t carry with the loop after the second Oicho hits.<br />
<br />
===Oicho Corner Loop===<br />
<br />
This is Honda’s fast route to 100% victory, here is how to do it:<br />
<br />
'''Step 1)''' Get opponent into the corner and knock them down.<br />
<br />
'''Step 2)''' Do a point blank meaty c.LP (stand LP and c.LK are also options, but c.LP is by far the better attack).<br />
<br />
'''Step 3)''' Oicho them when they recover from block/hit stun - this can be done by 3 methods;<br />
<br />
# By quick storing then piano tapping the Oochio - this gives 6 chances for the Oochio to connect with the opponent but also runs the risk of being reversaled by a special move easier if a normal comes out during a mistime.<br><br />
# By quick storing, holding down the 3 punches when the c.LP is still out, and releasing them one after the other piano style - this method cuts the number of chances for the Oochio to come out by 3, but also removes the risk of being reversaled by a special move since Honda will always block it instead.<br><br />
# Or by doing it “normally” with a brief pause between the c.LP and Oochio (like you would when doing something like Gief's LK > SPD) - I seriously recommend not using this method at all.<br><br />
<br />
'''Step 4)''' Repeat Steps 2 and 3 - the Oochio in the corner puts the opponent into perfect position for another meaty c.LP, so this is a pretty easy loop to learn.<br />
<br />
While this trick is pretty nasty, it can (like anything else) be escaped by reversals - I generally don't recommend using this against characters with access to a hold rather than a throw since at least if you get reversal thrown while attempting this, odds are you can tech out of it for minimal damage... unlike most holds while lead to a whole load of pain even if you escape quickly.<br />
<br />
To make things easier, here is a list of characters that you should not attempt the Oicho Loop on unless you are feeling brave and have the health to spare:<br />
<br />
Dhalsim, Boxer, Blanka, T-Hawk and (New) Ken<br />
<br />
T-Hawk, Gief and Honda (obviously) can also use their own command grabs to get out the loop<br />
<br />
When doing the loop, I recommend mixing it up with LP slaps, Sumo Splashes and LP Sumo Headbutt’s to keep the opponent from thinking twice when trying to reversal throw you - of course, this is still open to something like a reversal DP, but mixing up your options even when it might not be needed will keep your Honda from being predictable.<br />
<br />
--[[User:RWD|RWD]]<br />
<br />
===Sumo Auto mix-up===<br />
<br />
When using E.Honda you can take advantage of his stored command throw glitch to do a special Sumo Auto Mix-up that can defeat some tick escape attempts.<br />
<br />
Here is the command for this trick:<br />
<br />
→↘↓↙ charge ↖ + P + K'''<br />
<br />
In plain english we've got:<br />
<br />
*Half circle back stopping at down-back to store the Oicho command throw<br />
*Continue to hold down-back for a couple seconds to charge a butt slam<br />
*Up-back plus punch plus kick to complete the auto mix-up<br />
<br />
You'll want to use this as part of a tick. After you knock your opponent down, make them block a crouching jab as they stand up then finish the above command. If they do nothing you'll snatch them with a command throw. If they try to escape the tick with a special move you'll pass right through it with a butt slam attack. At least, you'll start to go through it -- this trick won't work against all reversal attacks.<br />
<br />
Note that in order to have the butt slam charged in time you'll need to do the first part of the command well before you try to tick.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Nohoho|Nohoho]] [http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/07/st-trickery-hondas-auto-mix-up.html]<br />
<br />
==Combos==<br />
<br />
Honda doesn't really need combos, but there are some useful ones (especially on dizzied opponents)<br />
<br />
*j.Fierce, cr.Short, Fierce Headbutt (start charging db as soon as you jump)<br />
*Crossup d + Forward, cl.st.Jab, cl.st.Strong, st.Fierce (may dizzy)<br />
<br />
==Attack Info and Frame Data==<br />
<br />
<table style="width:400px;border:1px solid silver" cellborder="1"><br />
<tr><br />
<th>Name</th><br />
<th>State</th><br />
<th>Buff</th><br />
<th>Hit</th><br />
<th>Blk</th><br />
<th>Sta</th><br />
<th>Act</th><br />
<th>Rec</th><br />
<th>Dmg</th><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=3>'''LP''' - Jab</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=4>'''MP''' - Strong</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=4>'''HP''' - Fierce</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=3>'''LK''' - Short</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=4>'''MK''' - Straight</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=3>'''HK''' - Roundhouse</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
</table><br />
<br />
==Match-ups==<br />
<br />
===Balrog (Boxer)===<br />
<br />
Against defensive Balrogs, bulldog up to standing roundhouse range, blocking dash punches on reaction or prediction, throwing out standing or crouching jab from time to time both to beat out dash punches and to hide the startup of an occasional strong hands. Don't do the hands too close to Boxer because they can actually lose to his jabs, and don't leave them out very long because you can get punished by low dash punch, use them mostly as a quick dash. But don't do the slaps too much, they're not as safe as just trying to walk up.<br />
<br />
At some point before you actually get into standing roundhouse range it becomes impossible to block a dash punch on reaction, so start throwing out crouching jab more and more frequently because it really contains Boxer well (but obviously don't get too predictable with it). If he tries to do a crouching attack to beat your crouching strong, that's fine, it means you've broken his standing jab defense and can go into other stuff.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Chun-Li===<br />
<br />
Getting around Chun's fireballs is really your biggest hurdle. If you can manage to accomplish that, the match isn't so hard.<br />
<br />
Hundred Hand Slap is really good against Chun, 'cause she doesn't have anything solid to beat it consistently. So say you j.Forward over a fireball, hit or blocked, you're guaranteed some free chip damage with hands unless she has super.<br />
<br />
She also has a tough time with the butt slam in the corner. If she doesn't predict it, the only thing she can really do is Short upkicks, but that's kinda hard to time.<br />
<br />
Also, just his regular punches (st.Jab and st.Strong especially) are great pokes. If you're in close, but not close enough for an Ochio, you can do a st.Jab or st.Strong and keep mashing on punch to get free block damage. Charge down while you're doing this, so that if she throws a fireball, you can butt slam.<br />
<br />
--[[User:NKI|NKI]]<br />
<br />
===Dhalsim=== <br />
<br />
He has an answer to almost all of Sim's moves. Crouching Jab stops the slide and his hands pretty much own everthing else. Dhalsim's objective is to keep Honda away. If you can keep Honda guessing and keep him out you can win easily. I just need one knock down and this sets up the buttsmash insanity. When you do crossup butt smash (after a knock down) you can do many things. Either a low short into head butt or another smash, a f + Roundhouse to trip him and crossup starts all over again. Next you can do the Oicho grab (after buttsmash). Crossup butt smash again. And hope he tries to counter grab, then do another low move or smash. But at this point Sim has lost over 75% and is pretty much toasted. Once in the corner punish with hands again. The Slide beats hands cleanly so change up with low jabs to stop the slide then link the jab into more hands. <br />
<br />
Also, you must learn how to cancel your medium hands into another medium hands. Tough to do but once you get the timing down it can lead to big chip damage. Another way on knocking Sim down or stunning him is through Jumping fierce or jumping med splash. Constantly change up your jump ins. once you get your meter built up sacrifice it to get in close by going through one of his FBs with it. Learn the timing of his Yoga Flame to sneak a full screen Fierce headbutt in as it dissipates. Once Sim has his meter built up things change and you need to bait him into blowing it off at the wrong time. Sometimes you can get over it with a butt smash but this rarely works. I still try and remain aggressive, don't let Sim get his feet settled or he can keep you away again. His drills/mummys can be tricky the trick here is to not use your instincts to headbutt them but buttsmash them instead. Or block them and attempt an Oicho; it's tough because of block stun against this move. This pretty much sums up that matchup. <br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Guile===<br />
<br />
Honda's key here is to bait Guile into throwing Booms. Even if Honda does anticipate, Guile can still jump up to counter a buttsmash over the Boom, since Guiles lag time after the boom is very short. The Key in this situation is to be as close to Guile as possible and do Medium B.Smash through the boom hitting him on the way up. If you are to far away to hit him on the way up you will hit him on the way down (unless Guile jumps away or air grabs him [tough to do ] Guile can recover and counter this move when you land.<br />
<br />
Pinning Guile in the corner is essential to beating him. Using ticks and foot games with cr.short, cr.forward, standing roundhouse and low strong and jab. These prevent booms and various moves in Guiles arsenal. You cannot fight Guile mid screen (much like against Vega). Chipping away at Guile with 100 hands is a nice way to get block damage and to close to set up the Oicho. I like early Jumps vs Guile as well after you knock him down do a Crossup Msplash early hope that Guile does a wake up and then Hit him with Hands 2X the 1st will hit, the other will make them block. Or after the initial hit do Bsmash. And attempt to grab or do low Short into Headbutt. Try not to knock him down again until you have done sufficient damage to him.<br />
<br />
Here are a list of NEVERS:<br />
<br />
# Never do Forward or Rhouse smashes over booms from full screen. only use short until close.<br />
# Never Turtle. ( unless you have an 80% lead or so and time is running out of course)<br />
# Never do full screen Headbutts.<br />
# Never allow him to jump in.<br />
# Never allow him to tick throw you. * you do have oichio remember that!!!!!!!!!<br />
<br />
This strategy section is for both versions of Guile.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
Guile can be pretty annoying. You wanna limit jumping over booms to attack him to a minimum, because you're probably gonna get flash kicked and maybe crouching fierced. The only time that's a reasonable thing to do is if you're standing at about the range of your jumping forward or roundhouse and you have great reactions and jump over a boom as soon as it comes out, but that's pretty rare. Jumping is also ok if see the Guile player standing... also rare. <br />
<br />
Better ways to get around booms depend on where you are on screen, but usually you want controllable neutral jumping fierce or neutral jumping kick or just bulldogging (walking up and blocking booms on reaction, then walking forward again), but toward jumping forward/roundhouse/short and forward buttslam are fine in some situations too. Make sure that if you're going to jump over a boom that you recognize what speed it is first, and if in doubt just block. You can follow up a jump over a boom with strong/fierce slaps, bulldogging, buttslam, headbutt, jumping toward forward/roundhouse, or toward standing roundhouse sweep. <br />
<br />
A great spot for you to try to stand is at like standing sweep range. Here you can sweep Guile with toward standing roundhouse, chip him strong/fierce slaps, beat out crouching forward with your crouching forward/strong/roundhouse, or do walk up fierce grab or ochio.<br />
<br />
One thing to note is that if you do fierce grab on Guile midscreen, you can hold jumping toward and do down+fierce for the splash, and it'll usually cross him up and always be a safe jump. The only problem is that since it usually but randomly crosses up, you can't be sure which way to block if Guile does a reversal flash kick/super. Generally just block like you're gonna cross up. It's stupid for Guile to try reversal most of the time because most of the time you'll safe jump, so he'll probably just block expecting a cross up. Once you're there, you can do all sorts of things, like crouching jab to fierce grab or ochio, crouching short to whatever-strength buttslam, strong slaps, crouching roundhouse, whatever. You can also mix this up by just doing toward jumping forward after the fierce grab, which will never be a crossup.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===O. Sagat===<br />
<br />
This match is one of the more difficult ones for Honda to Handle. The speed of Sagats Tigers are formidable. Also Sagats jumping RH is difficult to get around. Your reactions must be at their best. The air Game: Honda Jumping towards Fierce works well as well as his early jumping jab. Sagats jumping roundhouse can keep you at bay through out the match. Timing a headbutt after the RH retracts till when they hit the ground is not recommended. <br />
<br />
Ground game: You MUST keep constant pressure on Sagat so he cannot set up his tigers. His Tigers in reality are not that difficult to get around. Jumping over the slow high ones or crouching under the fast high ones make them worthless against Honda. The ones you have to worry about are the low ones. Believe it or not the slow low Tigers are Jail Bait. If go over these from full screen you will be DPed and if you go over the fast ones you need to almost guess at what is being throw unless you are full screen and the slow tigers may trade anyways because Honda can land on the slow low tigers after Honda Hits Sagat. Reacting and guessing correctly is key. So I do not recommend going over low tigers too much, unless they are just throwing constant low tigers then keep them honest.. So how do you keep on the pressure? Constant Hands as well as f + roundhouse. If you can link these together you can keep a constant barrage of hits going (not a combo). E.g. hands - f + Rh -hands - f + Rh repeat. Hondas Butt smash has very little use unless you have him trapped. If you do do it you must execute it early so that J.RH does not snuff it out. <br />
<br />
Throws: Normal throws work great vs. OG sagat but if you face off against new sagat use the Oicho when in close as much as possible. Starting off the match many Sagat players will start with a j.roundhouse or a Tiger or a tiger knee into DP. If they do the latter then punish them as the DP is landing. if the J.roundhouse do a f + roundhouse to trip them. if they catch on to this, pause just a second and make them guess at what is coming. As for how you can start... Hands, f + roundhouse, Block, Cr. Jab. or if you can guess a tiger then use forward Buttsmash. Another trick is to do Short butt smashes over the low tigers as well as his short squat jump over them.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===O. Hawk===<br />
<br />
This is one of Hondas best matchups. The air game should not come into play at all in this matchup because Honda does not need to jump or be in the air at all. Honda must beware of a few things against Hawk. The first being his short dive into DP. nice trick easily stopped by either headbutt after the DP or hands. Headbutt the dive itself (if in range). if not in range. use hands or safe low jab. Hawk is unable to use Far dives that will hit deep or high. Headbutt stops this. Headbutt stops just about everything that Hawk has to offer. WARNING DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN! Get to the air if Hawk is able to get in after he knocks you down. Jumping back with out hitting any buttons is preferred it tightens your hitboxes and you become tougher to hit. if not Hit fierce or RH very Early. Get in the corner and sit there, headbutt every jumpin and hands often to build meter. If things get up-close and personal Ochio. I cannot emphasize this more <br />
<br />
# DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN!<br />
# Head butt ALL jump ins.<br />
# Do Hands often to keep him out of typhoon range.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Vega (Claw)===<br />
<br />
I give a slight 6-4 or 5.5-4.5 advantage to Honda. The main problems Honda has vs. Claw are Claw's jumping speed and is mid screen cross up game. First thing to know when fighting claw: get in the corner as fast as you can. If you get caught in the middle of the screen, you more than likely will take chip damage from the crossup walldives, enough to put Claw on the run and you want to have a lead vs Claw, not be chasing him all over the board. You must make Claw come to you. (If he gets the lead it will be extremely difficult to get it back.). Sit in that corner and splash or headbutt every jump in he attempts. Another trick is to block then Ochio the jump-in. you may notice that you cannot headbutt claws jumps most of the time. This is due to the speed of his jumps.<br />
<br />
The Air game: Honda actually fairs quite well in this. Jump back jab stops just about all of the wall dives. Anything off of the wall, jump back jab. If he goes off of his wall sit and head butt it. If he tries to go off of your wall you must use jump back jab to prevent Claw from going of off your wall and causing you to lose your charge. If you are caught not charging or with cement feet use standing fierce.<br />
<br />
The ground game: Honda does well, but beware of the rolls, sometimes they can hit all of Honda's ground moves. Hands is a nice way to get him out of his ground game. Another danger is the full screen headbutt. Most expert Claw players invite you to do full screen HB then they can do a single back flip then throw you then RUN! Scrolling the screen also meses up Claw so doing repeated Hands (even if they miss) can screw his wall game up.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Serious Advantage Match-ups===<br />
Zangief, Cammy, Fei-Long<br />
<br />
===Advantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
O T Hawk, Blanka, Dictator<br />
<br />
===Fair Match-ups===<br />
<br />
Dhalsim, Boxer, Claw, O Sagat<br />
<br />
===Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
N Ken, Chun Li, Guile<br />
<br />
===Serious Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
O Ken, Ryu, DeeJay<br />
<br />
--UltraDavid<br />
<br />
{{Super Turbo}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo]]<br />
[[Category:E. Honda]]</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo/E._Honda&diff=30348Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/E. Honda2008-10-08T16:41:45Z<p>Gargamuza: /* Super Move */</p>
<hr />
<div><!-- Portrait graphic near title, added by Raisin --><br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_portrait.png|right|E.Honda's portrait in Super Turbo]]<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
<br />
Honda is a strange character. He destroys most non-fireball characters, yet he's destroyed by most non-fireball characters. He alternates between rushdown and mixups to extreme turtling.<br />
<br />
If you are willing to use Honda, just be aware that fighting against good zoning characters is an extremely hard task, as his ways to get in are easily countered by good anti-air moves. You'll spend all the match patiently ''trying'' to get in once, and if you manage to get in, you have to be brutal enough and end the round right there.<br />
<br />
==Color Options==<br />
===New E.Honda Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_new_colors.png|New E.Honda's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
To choose the "Hold" color, press and hold any button except Start for 2 seconds. To choose any other color, simply tap the desired button.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 6, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
===Old E.Honda Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_old_colors.png|Old E.Honda's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
Old E.Honda's input code is UUUD. Pressing Short simultaneously with Jab or Fierce will give you the alternate color.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 6, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
==Move Analysis==<br />
<br />
===Normal Moves===<br />
<br />
===Command Normals===<br />
<br />
===Normal Throws===<br />
<br />
Fierce throw is the one you'll be using the most. It's untechable, does nice damage, and sets up crossup / walk under / tick shenanigans. You can even crossup / walk under when in the corner after a fierce grab (you can walk under, cr. RH for a crossup, or go for a crossup d + Forward, cr.Jab, Oicho, etc). <br />
<br />
Note that some characters (Balrog, Cammy, DeeJay, Vega, Fei Long) cannot be walked under outside of the corner.<br />
<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
<br />
'''Hundred Hands Slap (Tap P repeatedly)''' - Jab is stationary and a good way to turtle and build meter fast. <br />
<br />
Strong is great to pressure, ticking and chipping. It moves you forward a bit too. Except for when you are chipping, don't keep mashing (this goes for all versions really) strong so the HHS recovers very quickly, which allows you to go for a throw if you are relatively close, or a second HHS to catch your opponent if they try to retaliate. Another good pressure option is to use it after a f + roundhouse.<br />
<br />
Fierce moves you further forward than Strong, and faster too. It also has bigger priority, and is a good way to attempt to get into certain fireballers (such as Chun), especially after a neutral jumping fierce.<br />
<br />
'''Oicho Throw (f, df, d, db + P)''' - Honda's most powerful move. Easy to tick into, very good damage, high dizzy for the Fierce version, it's his main offensive weapon and can end a round by itself when in the corner.<br />
<br />
Besides of its obvious offensive uses, the Oicho Throw is also an excellent defensive tool due to a programming bug: the stored Oicho (see the Advanced Strategy section for more info).<br />
<br />
'''Headbutt (Charge b, f + P)''' - Jab headbutt will be your main defensive tool. It has invincibility on startup and has excellent vertical ''and'' horizontal range, which makes jumping in or getting in-close Honda a nearly impossible task. Learn to time your Jab headbutt and matches against non-fireballers will become way easier.<br />
<br />
Fierce version is very fast and can be used to safely pressure and punish mistakes (whiffs or people coming down from a jumping attack for example) at mid range. Avoid using it from full-screen especially if out opponent is near the corner as he can jump it on reaction and punish you afterwards. <br />
<br />
'''Sumo Smash (Charge d, u + K)''' - Short version hits on the way up (so it's a decent antiand is useful to get over projectiles from far away. Also, it's a good mixup in Oicho setups. Forward hits on the way up too, can be used to stuff projectile attempts at the right distance, and is a risky way to get over projectiles (can be punished by sweeps -shotos- and jumping attacks -Guile, DeeJay- if they see it coming). Roundhouse should be used mainly for crossups, mixups and setting ticks rather than as a way to avoid projectiles, as it is extremely easy to punish in those situations. It hits only on the way down unlike the other versions.<br />
<br />
To use as a pressure / mixup tool, it's a good idea to do cr.Short xx Smash, varying strenghts to make the opponent guess if you are going to cross-up or not, and mixing up ticks in-between.<br />
<br />
===Super Move===<br />
<br />
'''Double Sumo Smash (Charge b, f, b, f + P)''' - Honda's Super is sadly one of the worst in the game. It's extremely unsafe on block (some characters can Dragon Punch / Flash Kick after blocking the first hit, and others can punish you heavily after blocking both), the second hit will randomly miss, low priority (can be stopped by standing jabs)...<br />
<br />
On the plus side, it can go through projectiles and (this can be a downside too) sometimes it won't knock down leaving you just beside your opponent, allowing to Oicho him afterwards. Also, like Chun's super, it can be stored by doing the super motion and hold forward. But still it's a very unreliable move and you should use it sparingly.<br />
<br />
==The Basics==<br />
<br />
Honda's overall strategy has two main variations. Against non-fireballers, turtling is usually the way to go. Jab headbutt can beat practically every attempt to get into Honda, while Oicho Throw (especially when piano-ed) can take care of throw attempts, and you make things even harder to your opponents with HHS pressure (while keeping charge to headbutt / sumo smash and storing an Oicho at the same time!), which gives Honda the upper hand against most characters that lack a fireball.<br />
<br />
Against characters with projectiles things become difficult though... <br />
<br />
===Anti-Projectile Strategy===<br />
<br />
One of the major hurdles a beginner Honda player will run into is dealing with projectile spam - at the start you'll probably think its a lost cause dealing with the random hits/block damage caused due to his size, but after a while you'll learn how to deal with it.<br />
<br />
First thing to know is NEVER EVER use '''HK Sumo Splash''', that thing is serious counter bait, don't use it.<br />
<br />
'''LK Sumo Splash''' over projectiles from max distance away does very well if you are willing to "creep" towards your opponent - remember that patience will serve you well in the long run as all it takes is to win is 1 mistake or trapping the opponent in the corner and keeping them there.<br />
<br />
'''MK Sumo Splash''' is very risky, especially against shotos, but if it is used once in a while it may help gain some ground if you have the health to take the risk with.<br />
<br />
'''Straight Up j.HP -''' this is controllable, so you can move forward slightly while in the air, learning to do this is pretty essential because overuse of any type of Sumo Splash will lead to being countered all the time.<br />
<br />
'''The Super -''' Don't forget about it and remember to have a back up plan if it doesn't work correctly.<br />
<br />
'''j.LK -''' this comes in handy since makes Honda a smaller target and seems to have pretty high priority, i've seen this do pretty really well against Guile in particular.<br />
<br />
'''MP HHS -''' this isn't “avoiding” the projectile par say, but if you are willing to be a man (and have the health to back it up), you can at least trade hits from a fair distance away, this can be a psychological advantage knowing you always have a way to at least trade off in the damage department.<br />
<br />
I’ll also use the MP (and sometimes HP) HHS after a straight up j.HP, this can be decent pressure against characters with longer projectile recovery time, New Ken and New Sagat being prime targets.<br />
<br />
Another method of countering projectile spam is by simply trying to “bulldog” your way to the opponent - walk forward, block, repeat (and perhaps do the occastional poke now and then)... you'll slowly but surely back your opponent up into a corner. This is, of course, a very dangerous way of getting in, as proven in one of the A-cho tournaments, it can actually get you completely owned so only use this if you have strong reactions.<br />
<br />
As stated earlier, patience is the key against someone who knows how to use their projectiles, take your time with the confidence that you'll eventually get in (even if it takes the whole round and nearly all your health to do it) and you should go far.<br />
<br />
--[[User:RWD|RWD]]<br />
<br />
==Advanced Strategy==<br />
<br />
===Stored Oicho===<br />
<br />
The nightmare move of ST... this makes Honda an iron fortress and is arguably the most broken thing in the game - learning to use and abuse this is completely essential for high level play.<br />
<br />
Oicho is performed with a HCB + P movement right? Well, a glitch in ST makes it so Honda can store the move and use it at will - this is done by doing the HCB movement then holding onto either Back, Up-Back or Down-Back and not letting go.<br />
<br />
Why is this technique so good? Oochio is a zero frame command throw (with no whiff animation, unlike Gief's SPD) with decent range, which means under reversal circumstances it will beat every ground based attack in the game... period. This also means when Honda is knockdowned, he can store Oochio and basically be impossible to meaty attack.<br />
<br />
Other plus points is the fact when your holding onto Back/Down-Back so you are essentially charging up for Sumo Headbutt and Sumo Splash while having a perfect reversal waiting. In other words, everything you want for the "tank-like" defensive is covered, if you wanted, you could also use MP and HP slaps as a way of moving forward while keeping all 3 attacks ready.<br />
<br />
One last point; when the opponent isn't in range for an Oicho, you can use any normal attack you wish and not lose the store.<br />
<br />
===Oicho Options===<br />
<br />
Whenever you land an Oicho (stored or not) you have a whole host of options to play with, here we go:<br />
<br />
'''c.MK -''' this doesn't work on all characters and i'll update this with a list at a later date, but because Oicho does a HUGE amount of stun damage, generally, the next hit will probably dizzy the opponent.<br />
<br />
'''MP HHS -''' this is a no brainer, the lunging slaps get chip damage for free... unless your opponent is a reversal demon they'll most likely do the safe option and block.<br />
<br />
'''c.MK > MP HHS -''' an extention of the above, if the c.MK doesn't get them... the chip damage from the HHS will...<br />
<br />
'''HK Sumo Splash -''' this will cross the opponent over and probably dizzy them if it connects.<br />
<br />
'''MK Sumo Splash -''' just to mix up paranoia about the crossover HK Sumo Splash with a non-crossover Sumo Splash.<br />
<br />
'''j-d.MK (the splash) > Oicho -''' this is risky but is worth it if you connect with another Oicho afterwards.<br />
<br />
'''(in the corner) c.LK xx Sumo Splash -''' the c.LK is cancellable so it should flow like a thing of beauty for a high/low block string, can also lead to another Oochio. <br />
<br />
'''(in the corner) LP HHS -''' like the MP HHS, chip damage for all, just watch out for those reversal throws.<br />
<br />
(in the corner) Oicho Loop - see the next section...<br />
<br />
'''B/F+HK -''' the sweep of doom, use if you forget the above follow ups... >_><br />
<br />
'''c.LP > Oicho -''' this can be done when you land an Oicho close to the corner but you still switch sides with the opponent, this is done the same way as the Oicho Loop (talked about in the next section) only you can’t carry with the loop after the second Oicho hits.<br />
<br />
===Oicho Corner Loop===<br />
<br />
This is Honda’s fast route to 100% victory, here is how to do it:<br />
<br />
'''Step 1)''' Get opponent into the corner and knock them down.<br />
<br />
'''Step 2)''' Do a point blank meaty c.LP (stand LP and c.LK are also options, but c.LP is by far the better attack).<br />
<br />
'''Step 3)''' Oicho them when they recover from block/hit stun - this can be done by 3 methods;<br />
<br />
# By quick storing then piano tapping the Oochio - this gives 6 chances for the Oochio to connect with the opponent but also runs the risk of being reversaled by a special move easier if a normal comes out during a mistime.<br><br />
# By quick storing, holding down the 3 punches when the c.LP is still out, and releasing them one after the other piano style - this method cuts the number of chances for the Oochio to come out by 3, but also removes the risk of being reversaled by a special move since Honda will always block it instead.<br><br />
# Or by doing it “normally” with a brief pause between the c.LP and Oochio (like you would when doing something like Gief's LK > SPD) - I seriously recommend not using this method at all.<br><br />
<br />
'''Step 4)''' Repeat Steps 2 and 3 - the Oochio in the corner puts the opponent into perfect position for another meaty c.LP, so this is a pretty easy loop to learn.<br />
<br />
While this trick is pretty nasty, it can (like anything else) be escaped by reversals - I generally don't recommend using this against characters with access to a hold rather than a throw since at least if you get reversal thrown while attempting this, odds are you can tech out of it for minimal damage... unlike most holds while lead to a whole load of pain even if you escape quickly.<br />
<br />
To make things easier, here is a list of characters that you should not attempt the Oicho Loop on unless you are feeling brave and have the health to spare:<br />
<br />
Dhalsim, Boxer, Blanka, T-Hawk and (New) Ken<br />
<br />
T-Hawk, Gief and Honda (obviously) can also use their own command grabs to get out the loop<br />
<br />
When doing the loop, I recommend mixing it up with LP slaps, Sumo Splashes and LP Sumo Headbutt’s to keep the opponent from thinking twice when trying to reversal throw you - of course, this is still open to something like a reversal DP, but mixing up your options even when it might not be needed will keep your Honda from being predictable.<br />
<br />
--[[User:RWD|RWD]]<br />
<br />
===Sumo Auto mix-up===<br />
<br />
When using E.Honda you can take advantage of his stored command throw glitch to do a special Sumo Auto Mix-up that can defeat some tick escape attempts.<br />
<br />
Here is the command for this trick:<br />
<br />
→↘↓↙ charge ↖ + P + K'''<br />
<br />
In plain english we've got:<br />
<br />
*Half circle back stopping at down-back to store the Oicho command throw<br />
*Continue to hold down-back for a couple seconds to charge a butt slam<br />
*Up-back plus punch plus kick to complete the auto mix-up<br />
<br />
You'll want to use this as part of a tick. After you knock your opponent down, make them block a crouching jab as they stand up then finish the above command. If they do nothing you'll snatch them with a command throw. If they try to escape the tick with a special move you'll pass right through it with a butt slam attack. At least, you'll start to go through it -- this trick won't work against all reversal attacks.<br />
<br />
Note that in order to have the butt slam charged in time you'll need to do the first part of the command well before you try to tick.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Nohoho|Nohoho]] [http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/07/st-trickery-hondas-auto-mix-up.html]<br />
<br />
==Combos==<br />
<br />
Honda doesn't really need combos, but there are some useful ones (especially on dizzied opponents)<br />
<br />
*j.Fierce, cr.Short, Fierce Headbutt (start charging db as soon as you jump)<br />
*Crossup d + Forward, cl.st.Jab, cl.st.Strong, st.Fierce<br />
<br />
==Attack Info and Frame Data==<br />
<br />
<table style="width:400px;border:1px solid silver" cellborder="1"><br />
<tr><br />
<th>Name</th><br />
<th>State</th><br />
<th>Buff</th><br />
<th>Hit</th><br />
<th>Blk</th><br />
<th>Sta</th><br />
<th>Act</th><br />
<th>Rec</th><br />
<th>Dmg</th><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=3>'''LP''' - Jab</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=4>'''MP''' - Strong</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=4>'''HP''' - Fierce</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=3>'''LK''' - Short</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=4>'''MK''' - Straight</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=3>'''HK''' - Roundhouse</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
</table><br />
<br />
==Match-ups==<br />
<br />
===Balrog (Boxer)===<br />
<br />
Against defensive Balrogs, bulldog up to standing roundhouse range, blocking dash punches on reaction or prediction, throwing out standing or crouching jab from time to time both to beat out dash punches and to hide the startup of an occasional strong hands. Don't do the hands too close to Boxer because they can actually lose to his jabs, and don't leave them out very long because you can get punished by low dash punch, use them mostly as a quick dash. But don't do the slaps too much, they're not as safe as just trying to walk up.<br />
<br />
At some point before you actually get into standing roundhouse range it becomes impossible to block a dash punch on reaction, so start throwing out crouching jab more and more frequently because it really contains Boxer well (but obviously don't get too predictable with it). If he tries to do a crouching attack to beat your crouching strong, that's fine, it means you've broken his standing jab defense and can go into other stuff.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Chun-Li===<br />
<br />
Getting around Chun's fireballs is really your biggest hurdle. If you can manage to accomplish that, the match isn't so hard.<br />
<br />
Hundred Hand Slap is really good against Chun, 'cause she doesn't have anything solid to beat it consistently. So say you j.Forward over a fireball, hit or blocked, you're guaranteed some free chip damage with hands unless she has super.<br />
<br />
She also has a tough time with the butt slam in the corner. If she doesn't predict it, the only thing she can really do is Short upkicks, but that's kinda hard to time.<br />
<br />
Also, just his regular punches (st.Jab and st.Strong especially) are great pokes. If you're in close, but not close enough for an Ochio, you can do a st.Jab or st.Strong and keep mashing on punch to get free block damage. Charge down while you're doing this, so that if she throws a fireball, you can butt slam.<br />
<br />
--[[User:NKI|NKI]]<br />
<br />
===Dhalsim=== <br />
<br />
He has an answer to almost all of Sim's moves. Crouching Jab stops the slide and his hands pretty much own everthing else. Dhalsim's objective is to keep Honda away. If you can keep Honda guessing and keep him out you can win easily. I just need one knock down and this sets up the buttsmash insanity. When you do crossup butt smash (after a knock down) you can do many things. Either a low short into head butt or another smash, a f + Roundhouse to trip him and crossup starts all over again. Next you can do the Oicho grab (after buttsmash). Crossup butt smash again. And hope he tries to counter grab, then do another low move or smash. But at this point Sim has lost over 75% and is pretty much toasted. Once in the corner punish with hands again. The Slide beats hands cleanly so change up with low jabs to stop the slide then link the jab into more hands. <br />
<br />
Also, you must learn how to cancel your medium hands into another medium hands. Tough to do but once you get the timing down it can lead to big chip damage. Another way on knocking Sim down or stunning him is through Jumping fierce or jumping med splash. Constantly change up your jump ins. once you get your meter built up sacrifice it to get in close by going through one of his FBs with it. Learn the timing of his Yoga Flame to sneak a full screen Fierce headbutt in as it dissipates. Once Sim has his meter built up things change and you need to bait him into blowing it off at the wrong time. Sometimes you can get over it with a butt smash but this rarely works. I still try and remain aggressive, don't let Sim get his feet settled or he can keep you away again. His drills/mummys can be tricky the trick here is to not use your instincts to headbutt them but buttsmash them instead. Or block them and attempt an Oicho; it's tough because of block stun against this move. This pretty much sums up that matchup. <br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Guile===<br />
<br />
Honda's key here is to bait Guile into throwing Booms. Even if Honda does anticipate, Guile can still jump up to counter a buttsmash over the Boom, since Guiles lag time after the boom is very short. The Key in this situation is to be as close to Guile as possible and do Medium B.Smash through the boom hitting him on the way up. If you are to far away to hit him on the way up you will hit him on the way down (unless Guile jumps away or air grabs him [tough to do ] Guile can recover and counter this move when you land.<br />
<br />
Pinning Guile in the corner is essential to beating him. Using ticks and foot games with cr.short, cr.forward, standing roundhouse and low strong and jab. These prevent booms and various moves in Guiles arsenal. You cannot fight Guile mid screen (much like against Vega). Chipping away at Guile with 100 hands is a nice way to get block damage and to close to set up the Oicho. I like early Jumps vs Guile as well after you knock him down do a Crossup Msplash early hope that Guile does a wake up and then Hit him with Hands 2X the 1st will hit, the other will make them block. Or after the initial hit do Bsmash. And attempt to grab or do low Short into Headbutt. Try not to knock him down again until you have done sufficient damage to him.<br />
<br />
Here are a list of NEVERS:<br />
<br />
# Never do Forward or Rhouse smashes over booms from full screen. only use short until close.<br />
# Never Turtle. ( unless you have an 80% lead or so and time is running out of course)<br />
# Never do full screen Headbutts.<br />
# Never allow him to jump in.<br />
# Never allow him to tick throw you. * you do have oichio remember that!!!!!!!!!<br />
<br />
This strategy section is for both versions of Guile.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
Guile can be pretty annoying. You wanna limit jumping over booms to attack him to a minimum, because you're probably gonna get flash kicked and maybe crouching fierced. The only time that's a reasonable thing to do is if you're standing at about the range of your jumping forward or roundhouse and you have great reactions and jump over a boom as soon as it comes out, but that's pretty rare. Jumping is also ok if see the Guile player standing... also rare. <br />
<br />
Better ways to get around booms depend on where you are on screen, but usually you want controllable neutral jumping fierce or neutral jumping kick or just bulldogging (walking up and blocking booms on reaction, then walking forward again), but toward jumping forward/roundhouse/short and forward buttslam are fine in some situations too. Make sure that if you're going to jump over a boom that you recognize what speed it is first, and if in doubt just block. You can follow up a jump over a boom with strong/fierce slaps, bulldogging, buttslam, headbutt, jumping toward forward/roundhouse, or toward standing roundhouse sweep. <br />
<br />
A great spot for you to try to stand is at like standing sweep range. Here you can sweep Guile with toward standing roundhouse, chip him strong/fierce slaps, beat out crouching forward with your crouching forward/strong/roundhouse, or do walk up fierce grab or ochio.<br />
<br />
One thing to note is that if you do fierce grab on Guile midscreen, you can hold jumping toward and do down+fierce for the splash, and it'll usually cross him up and always be a safe jump. The only problem is that since it usually but randomly crosses up, you can't be sure which way to block if Guile does a reversal flash kick/super. Generally just block like you're gonna cross up. It's stupid for Guile to try reversal most of the time because most of the time you'll safe jump, so he'll probably just block expecting a cross up. Once you're there, you can do all sorts of things, like crouching jab to fierce grab or ochio, crouching short to whatever-strength buttslam, strong slaps, crouching roundhouse, whatever. You can also mix this up by just doing toward jumping forward after the fierce grab, which will never be a crossup.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===O. Sagat===<br />
<br />
This match is one of the more difficult ones for Honda to Handle. The speed of Sagats Tigers are formidable. Also Sagats jumping RH is difficult to get around. Your reactions must be at their best. The air Game: Honda Jumping towards Fierce works well as well as his early jumping jab. Sagats jumping roundhouse can keep you at bay through out the match. Timing a headbutt after the RH retracts till when they hit the ground is not recommended. <br />
<br />
Ground game: You MUST keep constant pressure on Sagat so he cannot set up his tigers. His Tigers in reality are not that difficult to get around. Jumping over the slow high ones or crouching under the fast high ones make them worthless against Honda. The ones you have to worry about are the low ones. Believe it or not the slow low Tigers are Jail Bait. If go over these from full screen you will be DPed and if you go over the fast ones you need to almost guess at what is being throw unless you are full screen and the slow tigers may trade anyways because Honda can land on the slow low tigers after Honda Hits Sagat. Reacting and guessing correctly is key. So I do not recommend going over low tigers too much, unless they are just throwing constant low tigers then keep them honest.. So how do you keep on the pressure? Constant Hands as well as f + roundhouse. If you can link these together you can keep a constant barrage of hits going (not a combo). E.g. hands - f + Rh -hands - f + Rh repeat. Hondas Butt smash has very little use unless you have him trapped. If you do do it you must execute it early so that J.RH does not snuff it out. <br />
<br />
Throws: Normal throws work great vs. OG sagat but if you face off against new sagat use the Oicho when in close as much as possible. Starting off the match many Sagat players will start with a j.roundhouse or a Tiger or a tiger knee into DP. If they do the latter then punish them as the DP is landing. if the J.roundhouse do a f + roundhouse to trip them. if they catch on to this, pause just a second and make them guess at what is coming. As for how you can start... Hands, f + roundhouse, Block, Cr. Jab. or if you can guess a tiger then use forward Buttsmash. Another trick is to do Short butt smashes over the low tigers as well as his short squat jump over them.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===O. Hawk===<br />
<br />
This is one of Hondas best matchups. The air game should not come into play at all in this matchup because Honda does not need to jump or be in the air at all. Honda must beware of a few things against Hawk. The first being his short dive into DP. nice trick easily stopped by either headbutt after the DP or hands. Headbutt the dive itself (if in range). if not in range. use hands or safe low jab. Hawk is unable to use Far dives that will hit deep or high. Headbutt stops this. Headbutt stops just about everything that Hawk has to offer. WARNING DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN! Get to the air if Hawk is able to get in after he knocks you down. Jumping back with out hitting any buttons is preferred it tightens your hitboxes and you become tougher to hit. if not Hit fierce or RH very Early. Get in the corner and sit there, headbutt every jumpin and hands often to build meter. If things get up-close and personal Ochio. I cannot emphasize this more <br />
<br />
# DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN!<br />
# Head butt ALL jump ins.<br />
# Do Hands often to keep him out of typhoon range.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Vega (Claw)===<br />
<br />
I give a slight 6-4 or 5.5-4.5 advantage to Honda. The main problems Honda has vs. Claw are Claw's jumping speed and is mid screen cross up game. First thing to know when fighting claw: get in the corner as fast as you can. If you get caught in the middle of the screen, you more than likely will take chip damage from the crossup walldives, enough to put Claw on the run and you want to have a lead vs Claw, not be chasing him all over the board. You must make Claw come to you. (If he gets the lead it will be extremely difficult to get it back.). Sit in that corner and splash or headbutt every jump in he attempts. Another trick is to block then Ochio the jump-in. you may notice that you cannot headbutt claws jumps most of the time. This is due to the speed of his jumps.<br />
<br />
The Air game: Honda actually fairs quite well in this. Jump back jab stops just about all of the wall dives. Anything off of the wall, jump back jab. If he goes off of his wall sit and head butt it. If he tries to go off of your wall you must use jump back jab to prevent Claw from going of off your wall and causing you to lose your charge. If you are caught not charging or with cement feet use standing fierce.<br />
<br />
The ground game: Honda does well, but beware of the rolls, sometimes they can hit all of Honda's ground moves. Hands is a nice way to get him out of his ground game. Another danger is the full screen headbutt. Most expert Claw players invite you to do full screen HB then they can do a single back flip then throw you then RUN! Scrolling the screen also meses up Claw so doing repeated Hands (even if they miss) can screw his wall game up.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Serious Advantage Match-ups===<br />
Zangief, Cammy, Fei-Long<br />
<br />
===Advantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
O T Hawk, Blanka, Dictator<br />
<br />
===Fair Match-ups===<br />
<br />
Dhalsim, Boxer, Claw, O Sagat<br />
<br />
===Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
N Ken, Chun Li, Guile<br />
<br />
===Serious Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
O Ken, Ryu, DeeJay<br />
<br />
--UltraDavid<br />
<br />
{{Super Turbo}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo]]<br />
[[Category:E. Honda]]</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo/E._Honda&diff=30347Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo/E. Honda2008-10-08T16:40:28Z<p>Gargamuza: /* Super Move */</p>
<hr />
<div><!-- Portrait graphic near title, added by Raisin --><br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_portrait.png|right|E.Honda's portrait in Super Turbo]]<br />
<br />
== Introduction ==<br />
<br />
Honda is a strange character. He destroys most non-fireball characters, yet he's destroyed by most non-fireball characters. He alternates between rushdown and mixups to extreme turtling.<br />
<br />
If you are willing to use Honda, just be aware that fighting against good zoning characters is an extremely hard task, as his ways to get in are easily countered by good anti-air moves. You'll spend all the match patiently ''trying'' to get in once, and if you manage to get in, you have to be brutal enough and end the round right there.<br />
<br />
==Color Options==<br />
===New E.Honda Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_new_colors.png|New E.Honda's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
To choose the "Hold" color, press and hold any button except Start for 2 seconds. To choose any other color, simply tap the desired button.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 6, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
===Old E.Honda Colors===<br />
[[Image:ST_Honda_old_colors.png|Old E.Honda's color options in Super Turbo]]<br><br />
Old E.Honda's input code is UUUD. Pressing Short simultaneously with Jab or Fierce will give you the alternate color.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Raisin|Raisin]] (April 6, 2007)<br><br />
<br><br />
<br><br />
<br />
==Move Analysis==<br />
<br />
===Normal Moves===<br />
<br />
===Command Normals===<br />
<br />
===Normal Throws===<br />
<br />
Fierce throw is the one you'll be using the most. It's untechable, does nice damage, and sets up crossup / walk under / tick shenanigans. You can even crossup / walk under when in the corner after a fierce grab (you can walk under, cr. RH for a crossup, or go for a crossup d + Forward, cr.Jab, Oicho, etc). <br />
<br />
Note that some characters (Balrog, Cammy, DeeJay, Vega, Fei Long) cannot be walked under outside of the corner.<br />
<br />
===Special Moves===<br />
<br />
'''Hundred Hands Slap (Tap P repeatedly)''' - Jab is stationary and a good way to turtle and build meter fast. <br />
<br />
Strong is great to pressure, ticking and chipping. It moves you forward a bit too. Except for when you are chipping, don't keep mashing (this goes for all versions really) strong so the HHS recovers very quickly, which allows you to go for a throw if you are relatively close, or a second HHS to catch your opponent if they try to retaliate. Another good pressure option is to use it after a f + roundhouse.<br />
<br />
Fierce moves you further forward than Strong, and faster too. It also has bigger priority, and is a good way to attempt to get into certain fireballers (such as Chun), especially after a neutral jumping fierce.<br />
<br />
'''Oicho Throw (f, df, d, db + P)''' - Honda's most powerful move. Easy to tick into, very good damage, high dizzy for the Fierce version, it's his main offensive weapon and can end a round by itself when in the corner.<br />
<br />
Besides of its obvious offensive uses, the Oicho Throw is also an excellent defensive tool due to a programming bug: the stored Oicho (see the Advanced Strategy section for more info).<br />
<br />
'''Headbutt (Charge b, f + P)''' - Jab headbutt will be your main defensive tool. It has invincibility on startup and has excellent vertical ''and'' horizontal range, which makes jumping in or getting in-close Honda a nearly impossible task. Learn to time your Jab headbutt and matches against non-fireballers will become way easier.<br />
<br />
Fierce version is very fast and can be used to safely pressure and punish mistakes (whiffs or people coming down from a jumping attack for example) at mid range. Avoid using it from full-screen especially if out opponent is near the corner as he can jump it on reaction and punish you afterwards. <br />
<br />
'''Sumo Smash (Charge d, u + K)''' - Short version hits on the way up (so it's a decent antiand is useful to get over projectiles from far away. Also, it's a good mixup in Oicho setups. Forward hits on the way up too, can be used to stuff projectile attempts at the right distance, and is a risky way to get over projectiles (can be punished by sweeps -shotos- and jumping attacks -Guile, DeeJay- if they see it coming). Roundhouse should be used mainly for crossups, mixups and setting ticks rather than as a way to avoid projectiles, as it is extremely easy to punish in those situations. It hits only on the way down unlike the other versions.<br />
<br />
To use as a pressure / mixup tool, it's a good idea to do cr.Short xx Smash, varying strenghts to make the opponent guess if you are going to cross-up or not, and mixing up ticks in-between.<br />
<br />
===Super Move===<br />
<br />
'''Double Sumo Smash (Charge b, f, b, f + P)''' - Honda's Super is sadly one of the worst in the game. It's extremely unsafe on block (some characters can Dragon Punch / Flash Kick after blocking the first hit, and others can punish you heavily after blocking both), the second hit will randomly miss, low priority (can be stopped by standing jabs)...<br />
<br />
On the plus side, it can go through projectiles and (this can be a downside too) sometimes it won't knock down leaving you just beside your opponent, allowing to Oicho him afterwards. Also, like Chun's super, it can be stored by doing the super motion and keep pressing forward. But still it's a very unreliable move and you should use it sparingly.<br />
<br />
==The Basics==<br />
<br />
Honda's overall strategy has two main variations. Against non-fireballers, turtling is usually the way to go. Jab headbutt can beat practically every attempt to get into Honda, while Oicho Throw (especially when piano-ed) can take care of throw attempts, and you make things even harder to your opponents with HHS pressure (while keeping charge to headbutt / sumo smash and storing an Oicho at the same time!), which gives Honda the upper hand against most characters that lack a fireball.<br />
<br />
Against characters with projectiles things become difficult though... <br />
<br />
===Anti-Projectile Strategy===<br />
<br />
One of the major hurdles a beginner Honda player will run into is dealing with projectile spam - at the start you'll probably think its a lost cause dealing with the random hits/block damage caused due to his size, but after a while you'll learn how to deal with it.<br />
<br />
First thing to know is NEVER EVER use '''HK Sumo Splash''', that thing is serious counter bait, don't use it.<br />
<br />
'''LK Sumo Splash''' over projectiles from max distance away does very well if you are willing to "creep" towards your opponent - remember that patience will serve you well in the long run as all it takes is to win is 1 mistake or trapping the opponent in the corner and keeping them there.<br />
<br />
'''MK Sumo Splash''' is very risky, especially against shotos, but if it is used once in a while it may help gain some ground if you have the health to take the risk with.<br />
<br />
'''Straight Up j.HP -''' this is controllable, so you can move forward slightly while in the air, learning to do this is pretty essential because overuse of any type of Sumo Splash will lead to being countered all the time.<br />
<br />
'''The Super -''' Don't forget about it and remember to have a back up plan if it doesn't work correctly.<br />
<br />
'''j.LK -''' this comes in handy since makes Honda a smaller target and seems to have pretty high priority, i've seen this do pretty really well against Guile in particular.<br />
<br />
'''MP HHS -''' this isn't “avoiding” the projectile par say, but if you are willing to be a man (and have the health to back it up), you can at least trade hits from a fair distance away, this can be a psychological advantage knowing you always have a way to at least trade off in the damage department.<br />
<br />
I’ll also use the MP (and sometimes HP) HHS after a straight up j.HP, this can be decent pressure against characters with longer projectile recovery time, New Ken and New Sagat being prime targets.<br />
<br />
Another method of countering projectile spam is by simply trying to “bulldog” your way to the opponent - walk forward, block, repeat (and perhaps do the occastional poke now and then)... you'll slowly but surely back your opponent up into a corner. This is, of course, a very dangerous way of getting in, as proven in one of the A-cho tournaments, it can actually get you completely owned so only use this if you have strong reactions.<br />
<br />
As stated earlier, patience is the key against someone who knows how to use their projectiles, take your time with the confidence that you'll eventually get in (even if it takes the whole round and nearly all your health to do it) and you should go far.<br />
<br />
--[[User:RWD|RWD]]<br />
<br />
==Advanced Strategy==<br />
<br />
===Stored Oicho===<br />
<br />
The nightmare move of ST... this makes Honda an iron fortress and is arguably the most broken thing in the game - learning to use and abuse this is completely essential for high level play.<br />
<br />
Oicho is performed with a HCB + P movement right? Well, a glitch in ST makes it so Honda can store the move and use it at will - this is done by doing the HCB movement then holding onto either Back, Up-Back or Down-Back and not letting go.<br />
<br />
Why is this technique so good? Oochio is a zero frame command throw (with no whiff animation, unlike Gief's SPD) with decent range, which means under reversal circumstances it will beat every ground based attack in the game... period. This also means when Honda is knockdowned, he can store Oochio and basically be impossible to meaty attack.<br />
<br />
Other plus points is the fact when your holding onto Back/Down-Back so you are essentially charging up for Sumo Headbutt and Sumo Splash while having a perfect reversal waiting. In other words, everything you want for the "tank-like" defensive is covered, if you wanted, you could also use MP and HP slaps as a way of moving forward while keeping all 3 attacks ready.<br />
<br />
One last point; when the opponent isn't in range for an Oicho, you can use any normal attack you wish and not lose the store.<br />
<br />
===Oicho Options===<br />
<br />
Whenever you land an Oicho (stored or not) you have a whole host of options to play with, here we go:<br />
<br />
'''c.MK -''' this doesn't work on all characters and i'll update this with a list at a later date, but because Oicho does a HUGE amount of stun damage, generally, the next hit will probably dizzy the opponent.<br />
<br />
'''MP HHS -''' this is a no brainer, the lunging slaps get chip damage for free... unless your opponent is a reversal demon they'll most likely do the safe option and block.<br />
<br />
'''c.MK > MP HHS -''' an extention of the above, if the c.MK doesn't get them... the chip damage from the HHS will...<br />
<br />
'''HK Sumo Splash -''' this will cross the opponent over and probably dizzy them if it connects.<br />
<br />
'''MK Sumo Splash -''' just to mix up paranoia about the crossover HK Sumo Splash with a non-crossover Sumo Splash.<br />
<br />
'''j-d.MK (the splash) > Oicho -''' this is risky but is worth it if you connect with another Oicho afterwards.<br />
<br />
'''(in the corner) c.LK xx Sumo Splash -''' the c.LK is cancellable so it should flow like a thing of beauty for a high/low block string, can also lead to another Oochio. <br />
<br />
'''(in the corner) LP HHS -''' like the MP HHS, chip damage for all, just watch out for those reversal throws.<br />
<br />
(in the corner) Oicho Loop - see the next section...<br />
<br />
'''B/F+HK -''' the sweep of doom, use if you forget the above follow ups... >_><br />
<br />
'''c.LP > Oicho -''' this can be done when you land an Oicho close to the corner but you still switch sides with the opponent, this is done the same way as the Oicho Loop (talked about in the next section) only you can’t carry with the loop after the second Oicho hits.<br />
<br />
===Oicho Corner Loop===<br />
<br />
This is Honda’s fast route to 100% victory, here is how to do it:<br />
<br />
'''Step 1)''' Get opponent into the corner and knock them down.<br />
<br />
'''Step 2)''' Do a point blank meaty c.LP (stand LP and c.LK are also options, but c.LP is by far the better attack).<br />
<br />
'''Step 3)''' Oicho them when they recover from block/hit stun - this can be done by 3 methods;<br />
<br />
# By quick storing then piano tapping the Oochio - this gives 6 chances for the Oochio to connect with the opponent but also runs the risk of being reversaled by a special move easier if a normal comes out during a mistime.<br><br />
# By quick storing, holding down the 3 punches when the c.LP is still out, and releasing them one after the other piano style - this method cuts the number of chances for the Oochio to come out by 3, but also removes the risk of being reversaled by a special move since Honda will always block it instead.<br><br />
# Or by doing it “normally” with a brief pause between the c.LP and Oochio (like you would when doing something like Gief's LK > SPD) - I seriously recommend not using this method at all.<br><br />
<br />
'''Step 4)''' Repeat Steps 2 and 3 - the Oochio in the corner puts the opponent into perfect position for another meaty c.LP, so this is a pretty easy loop to learn.<br />
<br />
While this trick is pretty nasty, it can (like anything else) be escaped by reversals - I generally don't recommend using this against characters with access to a hold rather than a throw since at least if you get reversal thrown while attempting this, odds are you can tech out of it for minimal damage... unlike most holds while lead to a whole load of pain even if you escape quickly.<br />
<br />
To make things easier, here is a list of characters that you should not attempt the Oicho Loop on unless you are feeling brave and have the health to spare:<br />
<br />
Dhalsim, Boxer, Blanka, T-Hawk and (New) Ken<br />
<br />
T-Hawk, Gief and Honda (obviously) can also use their own command grabs to get out the loop<br />
<br />
When doing the loop, I recommend mixing it up with LP slaps, Sumo Splashes and LP Sumo Headbutt’s to keep the opponent from thinking twice when trying to reversal throw you - of course, this is still open to something like a reversal DP, but mixing up your options even when it might not be needed will keep your Honda from being predictable.<br />
<br />
--[[User:RWD|RWD]]<br />
<br />
===Sumo Auto mix-up===<br />
<br />
When using E.Honda you can take advantage of his stored command throw glitch to do a special Sumo Auto Mix-up that can defeat some tick escape attempts.<br />
<br />
Here is the command for this trick:<br />
<br />
→↘↓↙ charge ↖ + P + K'''<br />
<br />
In plain english we've got:<br />
<br />
*Half circle back stopping at down-back to store the Oicho command throw<br />
*Continue to hold down-back for a couple seconds to charge a butt slam<br />
*Up-back plus punch plus kick to complete the auto mix-up<br />
<br />
You'll want to use this as part of a tick. After you knock your opponent down, make them block a crouching jab as they stand up then finish the above command. If they do nothing you'll snatch them with a command throw. If they try to escape the tick with a special move you'll pass right through it with a butt slam attack. At least, you'll start to go through it -- this trick won't work against all reversal attacks.<br />
<br />
Note that in order to have the butt slam charged in time you'll need to do the first part of the command well before you try to tick.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Nohoho|Nohoho]] [http://curryallergy.blogspot.com/2008/07/st-trickery-hondas-auto-mix-up.html]<br />
<br />
==Combos==<br />
<br />
Honda doesn't really need combos, but there are some useful ones (especially on dizzied opponents)<br />
<br />
*j.Fierce, cr.Short, Fierce Headbutt (start charging db as soon as you jump)<br />
*Crossup d + Forward, cl.st.Jab, cl.st.Strong, st.Fierce<br />
<br />
==Attack Info and Frame Data==<br />
<br />
<table style="width:400px;border:1px solid silver" cellborder="1"><br />
<tr><br />
<th>Name</th><br />
<th>State</th><br />
<th>Buff</th><br />
<th>Hit</th><br />
<th>Blk</th><br />
<th>Sta</th><br />
<th>Act</th><br />
<th>Rec</th><br />
<th>Dmg</th><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=3>'''LP''' - Jab</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=4>'''MP''' - Strong</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid navy" rowspan=4>'''HP''' - Fierce</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=3>'''LK''' - Short</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=4>'''MK''' - Straight</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Towards</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td style="border:1px solid red" rowspan=3>'''HK''' - Roundhouse</td><br />
<td>Close</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Far</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
<tr><br />
<td>Crouch</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
<td>?</td><br />
</tr><br />
</table><br />
<br />
==Match-ups==<br />
<br />
===Balrog (Boxer)===<br />
<br />
Against defensive Balrogs, bulldog up to standing roundhouse range, blocking dash punches on reaction or prediction, throwing out standing or crouching jab from time to time both to beat out dash punches and to hide the startup of an occasional strong hands. Don't do the hands too close to Boxer because they can actually lose to his jabs, and don't leave them out very long because you can get punished by low dash punch, use them mostly as a quick dash. But don't do the slaps too much, they're not as safe as just trying to walk up.<br />
<br />
At some point before you actually get into standing roundhouse range it becomes impossible to block a dash punch on reaction, so start throwing out crouching jab more and more frequently because it really contains Boxer well (but obviously don't get too predictable with it). If he tries to do a crouching attack to beat your crouching strong, that's fine, it means you've broken his standing jab defense and can go into other stuff.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===Chun-Li===<br />
<br />
Getting around Chun's fireballs is really your biggest hurdle. If you can manage to accomplish that, the match isn't so hard.<br />
<br />
Hundred Hand Slap is really good against Chun, 'cause she doesn't have anything solid to beat it consistently. So say you j.Forward over a fireball, hit or blocked, you're guaranteed some free chip damage with hands unless she has super.<br />
<br />
She also has a tough time with the butt slam in the corner. If she doesn't predict it, the only thing she can really do is Short upkicks, but that's kinda hard to time.<br />
<br />
Also, just his regular punches (st.Jab and st.Strong especially) are great pokes. If you're in close, but not close enough for an Ochio, you can do a st.Jab or st.Strong and keep mashing on punch to get free block damage. Charge down while you're doing this, so that if she throws a fireball, you can butt slam.<br />
<br />
--[[User:NKI|NKI]]<br />
<br />
===Dhalsim=== <br />
<br />
He has an answer to almost all of Sim's moves. Crouching Jab stops the slide and his hands pretty much own everthing else. Dhalsim's objective is to keep Honda away. If you can keep Honda guessing and keep him out you can win easily. I just need one knock down and this sets up the buttsmash insanity. When you do crossup butt smash (after a knock down) you can do many things. Either a low short into head butt or another smash, a f + Roundhouse to trip him and crossup starts all over again. Next you can do the Oicho grab (after buttsmash). Crossup butt smash again. And hope he tries to counter grab, then do another low move or smash. But at this point Sim has lost over 75% and is pretty much toasted. Once in the corner punish with hands again. The Slide beats hands cleanly so change up with low jabs to stop the slide then link the jab into more hands. <br />
<br />
Also, you must learn how to cancel your medium hands into another medium hands. Tough to do but once you get the timing down it can lead to big chip damage. Another way on knocking Sim down or stunning him is through Jumping fierce or jumping med splash. Constantly change up your jump ins. once you get your meter built up sacrifice it to get in close by going through one of his FBs with it. Learn the timing of his Yoga Flame to sneak a full screen Fierce headbutt in as it dissipates. Once Sim has his meter built up things change and you need to bait him into blowing it off at the wrong time. Sometimes you can get over it with a butt smash but this rarely works. I still try and remain aggressive, don't let Sim get his feet settled or he can keep you away again. His drills/mummys can be tricky the trick here is to not use your instincts to headbutt them but buttsmash them instead. Or block them and attempt an Oicho; it's tough because of block stun against this move. This pretty much sums up that matchup. <br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Guile===<br />
<br />
Honda's key here is to bait Guile into throwing Booms. Even if Honda does anticipate, Guile can still jump up to counter a buttsmash over the Boom, since Guiles lag time after the boom is very short. The Key in this situation is to be as close to Guile as possible and do Medium B.Smash through the boom hitting him on the way up. If you are to far away to hit him on the way up you will hit him on the way down (unless Guile jumps away or air grabs him [tough to do ] Guile can recover and counter this move when you land.<br />
<br />
Pinning Guile in the corner is essential to beating him. Using ticks and foot games with cr.short, cr.forward, standing roundhouse and low strong and jab. These prevent booms and various moves in Guiles arsenal. You cannot fight Guile mid screen (much like against Vega). Chipping away at Guile with 100 hands is a nice way to get block damage and to close to set up the Oicho. I like early Jumps vs Guile as well after you knock him down do a Crossup Msplash early hope that Guile does a wake up and then Hit him with Hands 2X the 1st will hit, the other will make them block. Or after the initial hit do Bsmash. And attempt to grab or do low Short into Headbutt. Try not to knock him down again until you have done sufficient damage to him.<br />
<br />
Here are a list of NEVERS:<br />
<br />
# Never do Forward or Rhouse smashes over booms from full screen. only use short until close.<br />
# Never Turtle. ( unless you have an 80% lead or so and time is running out of course)<br />
# Never do full screen Headbutts.<br />
# Never allow him to jump in.<br />
# Never allow him to tick throw you. * you do have oichio remember that!!!!!!!!!<br />
<br />
This strategy section is for both versions of Guile.<br><br />
<br><br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
Guile can be pretty annoying. You wanna limit jumping over booms to attack him to a minimum, because you're probably gonna get flash kicked and maybe crouching fierced. The only time that's a reasonable thing to do is if you're standing at about the range of your jumping forward or roundhouse and you have great reactions and jump over a boom as soon as it comes out, but that's pretty rare. Jumping is also ok if see the Guile player standing... also rare. <br />
<br />
Better ways to get around booms depend on where you are on screen, but usually you want controllable neutral jumping fierce or neutral jumping kick or just bulldogging (walking up and blocking booms on reaction, then walking forward again), but toward jumping forward/roundhouse/short and forward buttslam are fine in some situations too. Make sure that if you're going to jump over a boom that you recognize what speed it is first, and if in doubt just block. You can follow up a jump over a boom with strong/fierce slaps, bulldogging, buttslam, headbutt, jumping toward forward/roundhouse, or toward standing roundhouse sweep. <br />
<br />
A great spot for you to try to stand is at like standing sweep range. Here you can sweep Guile with toward standing roundhouse, chip him strong/fierce slaps, beat out crouching forward with your crouching forward/strong/roundhouse, or do walk up fierce grab or ochio.<br />
<br />
One thing to note is that if you do fierce grab on Guile midscreen, you can hold jumping toward and do down+fierce for the splash, and it'll usually cross him up and always be a safe jump. The only problem is that since it usually but randomly crosses up, you can't be sure which way to block if Guile does a reversal flash kick/super. Generally just block like you're gonna cross up. It's stupid for Guile to try reversal most of the time because most of the time you'll safe jump, so he'll probably just block expecting a cross up. Once you're there, you can do all sorts of things, like crouching jab to fierce grab or ochio, crouching short to whatever-strength buttslam, strong slaps, crouching roundhouse, whatever. You can also mix this up by just doing toward jumping forward after the fierce grab, which will never be a crossup.<br />
<br />
--[[User:UltraDavid|UltraDavid]]<br />
<br />
===O. Sagat===<br />
<br />
This match is one of the more difficult ones for Honda to Handle. The speed of Sagats Tigers are formidable. Also Sagats jumping RH is difficult to get around. Your reactions must be at their best. The air Game: Honda Jumping towards Fierce works well as well as his early jumping jab. Sagats jumping roundhouse can keep you at bay through out the match. Timing a headbutt after the RH retracts till when they hit the ground is not recommended. <br />
<br />
Ground game: You MUST keep constant pressure on Sagat so he cannot set up his tigers. His Tigers in reality are not that difficult to get around. Jumping over the slow high ones or crouching under the fast high ones make them worthless against Honda. The ones you have to worry about are the low ones. Believe it or not the slow low Tigers are Jail Bait. If go over these from full screen you will be DPed and if you go over the fast ones you need to almost guess at what is being throw unless you are full screen and the slow tigers may trade anyways because Honda can land on the slow low tigers after Honda Hits Sagat. Reacting and guessing correctly is key. So I do not recommend going over low tigers too much, unless they are just throwing constant low tigers then keep them honest.. So how do you keep on the pressure? Constant Hands as well as f + roundhouse. If you can link these together you can keep a constant barrage of hits going (not a combo). E.g. hands - f + Rh -hands - f + Rh repeat. Hondas Butt smash has very little use unless you have him trapped. If you do do it you must execute it early so that J.RH does not snuff it out. <br />
<br />
Throws: Normal throws work great vs. OG sagat but if you face off against new sagat use the Oicho when in close as much as possible. Starting off the match many Sagat players will start with a j.roundhouse or a Tiger or a tiger knee into DP. If they do the latter then punish them as the DP is landing. if the J.roundhouse do a f + roundhouse to trip them. if they catch on to this, pause just a second and make them guess at what is coming. As for how you can start... Hands, f + roundhouse, Block, Cr. Jab. or if you can guess a tiger then use forward Buttsmash. Another trick is to do Short butt smashes over the low tigers as well as his short squat jump over them.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===O. Hawk===<br />
<br />
This is one of Hondas best matchups. The air game should not come into play at all in this matchup because Honda does not need to jump or be in the air at all. Honda must beware of a few things against Hawk. The first being his short dive into DP. nice trick easily stopped by either headbutt after the DP or hands. Headbutt the dive itself (if in range). if not in range. use hands or safe low jab. Hawk is unable to use Far dives that will hit deep or high. Headbutt stops this. Headbutt stops just about everything that Hawk has to offer. WARNING DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN! Get to the air if Hawk is able to get in after he knocks you down. Jumping back with out hitting any buttons is preferred it tightens your hitboxes and you become tougher to hit. if not Hit fierce or RH very Early. Get in the corner and sit there, headbutt every jumpin and hands often to build meter. If things get up-close and personal Ochio. I cannot emphasize this more <br />
<br />
# DO NOT GET KNOCKED DOWN!<br />
# Head butt ALL jump ins.<br />
# Do Hands often to keep him out of typhoon range.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Vega (Claw)===<br />
<br />
I give a slight 6-4 or 5.5-4.5 advantage to Honda. The main problems Honda has vs. Claw are Claw's jumping speed and is mid screen cross up game. First thing to know when fighting claw: get in the corner as fast as you can. If you get caught in the middle of the screen, you more than likely will take chip damage from the crossup walldives, enough to put Claw on the run and you want to have a lead vs Claw, not be chasing him all over the board. You must make Claw come to you. (If he gets the lead it will be extremely difficult to get it back.). Sit in that corner and splash or headbutt every jump in he attempts. Another trick is to block then Ochio the jump-in. you may notice that you cannot headbutt claws jumps most of the time. This is due to the speed of his jumps.<br />
<br />
The Air game: Honda actually fairs quite well in this. Jump back jab stops just about all of the wall dives. Anything off of the wall, jump back jab. If he goes off of his wall sit and head butt it. If he tries to go off of your wall you must use jump back jab to prevent Claw from going of off your wall and causing you to lose your charge. If you are caught not charging or with cement feet use standing fierce.<br />
<br />
The ground game: Honda does well, but beware of the rolls, sometimes they can hit all of Honda's ground moves. Hands is a nice way to get him out of his ground game. Another danger is the full screen headbutt. Most expert Claw players invite you to do full screen HB then they can do a single back flip then throw you then RUN! Scrolling the screen also meses up Claw so doing repeated Hands (even if they miss) can screw his wall game up.<br />
<br />
--[[User:Ehonda|Ehonda]]<br />
<br />
===Serious Advantage Match-ups===<br />
Zangief, Cammy, Fei-Long<br />
<br />
===Advantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
O T Hawk, Blanka, Dictator<br />
<br />
===Fair Match-ups===<br />
<br />
Dhalsim, Boxer, Claw, O Sagat<br />
<br />
===Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
N Ken, Chun Li, Guile<br />
<br />
===Serious Disadvantage Match-ups===<br />
<br />
O Ken, Ryu, DeeJay<br />
<br />
--UltraDavid<br />
<br />
{{Super Turbo}}<br />
<br />
[[Category:Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo]]<br />
[[Category:E. Honda]]</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=KOF98_Athena_Hitboxes&diff=30230KOF98 Athena Hitboxes2008-09-24T20:42:04Z<p>Gargamuza: New page: = Normal Moves = == Close == === Close A === Image:Cl._Aa.png === Close C === Image:Cl._Ca.png === Close D === Image:Cl._Da.png == Standing == === Standing A === [[Im...</p>
<hr />
<div>= Normal Moves =<br />
<br />
== Close ==<br />
<br />
=== Close A ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Cl._Aa.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Close C ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Cl._Ca.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Close D ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Cl._Da.png]]<br />
<br />
== Standing ==<br />
<br />
=== Standing A ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:S._Aa.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Standing B ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:S._Ba.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Standing C ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:S._Ca.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Standing D ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:S._Da.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Standing CD ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:CDa.png]]<br />
<br />
== Crouching ==<br />
<br />
=== Crouching A ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Cr._Aa.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Crouching B ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Cr._Ba.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Crouching C ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Cr._Ca.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Crouching D ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Cr._Da.png]]<br />
<br />
== Jumping == <br />
<br />
=== Jumping A ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._Aa.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Jumping B ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._Ba.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Jumping C ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._Ca.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Jumping D ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._Da.png]] <br />
<br />
=== Straight Jumping A ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:S._j._A.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Straight Jumping B ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:S._j._Ba.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Straight Jumping C ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:S._j._C.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Straight Jumping D ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:S._j._D.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Jumping CD ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._CDa.png]]<br />
<br />
= Command Normals =<br />
<br />
=== Forward + B ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:F_+_B_1a.png]][[Image:F_+_B_2a.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Air Down + B ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._d_+_B.png]]<br />
<br />
= Special Moves =<br />
<br />
=== A Psycho Sword (dp + A) ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Dp_+_A_1aa.png]][[Image:Dp_+_A_2a.png]][[Image:Dp_+_A_3a.png]][[Image:Dp_+_A_-_C_4.png]]<br />
<br />
=== C Psycho Sword (dp + C) ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Dp_+_C.png]][[Image:Dp_+_C_2.png]][[Image:Dp_+_C_3.png]][[Image:Dp_+_A_-_C_4.png]]<br />
<br />
=== B Phoenix Arrow (In air, qcb + B) ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._qcb_+_K_1.png]]<br />
<br />
=== D Phoenix Arrow (In Air, qcb + B) ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._qcb_+_D_2.png]]<br />
<br />
=== B Psycho Reflector (hcb + B) ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Qcb_+_B.png]]<br />
<br />
=== B Psycho Reflector (hcb + B) ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Qcb_+_D.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Psycho Ball (qcb + P) ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Qcb_+_Pa.png]]<br />
<br />
= Desperation Moves =<br />
<br />
=== Shining Crystal Bit (hcb x 2 + P) DM ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Hcb_x_2_+_P_DM_1.png]]<br />
<br />
==== Crystal Shoot (qcb + P after SCB) ==== <br />
<br />
[[Image:Hcb_x_2_+_P_DM_2.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Shining Crystal Bit (hcb x 2 + P) SDM ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:Hcb_x_2_+_P_SDM_1.png]][[Image:Hcb_x_2_+_P_SDM_2.png]]<br />
<br />
==== Crystal Shoot (qcb + P after SCB) SDM ====<br />
<br />
[[Image:Hcb_x_2_+_P_SDM_3.png]]<br />
<br />
=== Phoenix Fang Arrow (In air, qcf x 2 + K) ===<br />
<br />
[[Image:J._qcf_x_2_+_K_2.png]]<br />
<br />
{{Template:The King of Fighters '98: The Slugfest}}</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:J._qcf_x_2_%2B_K_2.png&diff=30229File:J. qcf x 2 + K 2.png2008-09-24T20:40:17Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Hcb_x_2_%2B_P_SDM_3.png&diff=30228File:Hcb x 2 + P SDM 3.png2008-09-24T20:39:40Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Hcb_x_2_%2B_P_SDM_2.png&diff=30227File:Hcb x 2 + P SDM 2.png2008-09-24T20:38:32Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Hcb_x_2_%2B_P_SDM_1.png&diff=30226File:Hcb x 2 + P SDM 1.png2008-09-24T20:37:41Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Qcb_%2B_Pa.png&diff=30223File:Qcb + Pa.png2008-09-24T20:29:08Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Qcb_%2B_D.png&diff=30222File:Qcb + D.png2008-09-24T20:28:16Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Qcb_%2B_B.png&diff=30221File:Qcb + B.png2008-09-24T20:22:08Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:J._qcb_%2B_K_1.png&diff=30219File:J. qcb + K 1.png2008-09-24T20:20:08Z<p>Gargamuza: uploaded a new version of "Image:J. qcb + K 1.png"</p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Dp_%2B_C_3.png&diff=30217File:Dp + C 3.png2008-09-24T20:15:28Z<p>Gargamuza: uploaded a new version of "Image:Dp + C 3.png"</p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Dp_%2B_C.png&diff=30214File:Dp + C.png2008-09-24T20:13:35Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Dp_%2B_A_-_C_4.png&diff=30213File:Dp + A - C 4.png2008-09-24T20:12:47Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Dp_%2B_A_1aa.png&diff=30210File:Dp + A 1aa.png2008-09-24T20:07:50Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Dp_%2B_A_1a.png&diff=30209File:Dp + A 1a.png2008-09-24T20:06:24Z<p>Gargamuza: uploaded a new version of "Image:Dp + A 1a.png"</p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Dp_%2B_A_1a.png&diff=30208File:Dp + A 1a.png2008-09-24T19:54:19Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:S._j._D.png&diff=30207File:S. j. D.png2008-09-24T19:53:42Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:S._j._C.png&diff=30206File:S. j. C.png2008-09-24T19:53:03Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:S._j._Ba.png&diff=30205File:S. j. Ba.png2008-09-24T19:52:26Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:S._j._A.png&diff=30204File:S. j. A.png2008-09-24T19:50:56Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:S._Da.png&diff=30203File:S. Da.png2008-09-24T19:50:23Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:S._Ca.png&diff=30202File:S. Ca.png2008-09-24T19:49:45Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:S._Ba.png&diff=30201File:S. Ba.png2008-09-24T19:48:24Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:S._Aa.png&diff=30200File:S. Aa.png2008-09-24T19:47:25Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:J._Da.png&diff=30199File:J. Da.png2008-09-24T19:46:51Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:J._d_%2B_B.png&diff=30198File:J. d + B.png2008-09-24T19:45:56Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:J._CDa.png&diff=30197File:J. CDa.png2008-09-24T19:45:21Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:J._Ca.png&diff=30196File:J. Ca.png2008-09-24T19:44:43Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:J._Ba.png&diff=30195File:J. Ba.png2008-09-24T19:40:21Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:J._Aa.png&diff=30194File:J. Aa.png2008-09-24T19:39:05Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:F_%2B_B_2a.png&diff=30193File:F + B 2a.png2008-09-24T19:37:58Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=The_King_of_Fighters_%2798/Athena&diff=30192The King of Fighters '98/Athena2008-09-24T19:37:51Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
<hr />
<div>=Introduction=<br />
<br />
=Gameplay Overview=<br />
<br />
Athena is a solid zoning / runaway character. Her fireball has fast recovery, which is nice both for pure zoning and to put pressure on your opponent by running up and poking. Her DP is not as good as you would expect from a zoning character, though.<br />
She also has great mobility with super backdashes, triangle jumps, teleports, etc. that allow for an annoying runaway game.<br />
<br />
=Combos=<br />
<br />
Athena isn't very combo friendly. She does have some useful ones, though<br />
<br />
*hcf + P, Shining Crystal Bit<br />
<br />
*''corner only'' cl.C / cl.D / cr.B, f + B, Shining Crystal Bit / Phoenix Arrow / SDM Phoenix Fang Arrow (DM can be blocked after the first Arrow).<br />
<br />
Doing a Shining Crystal Bit (SCB) after the command throw can take some time to master. If you are in the corner, just walk a tiny bit and do the DM. Outside of the corner it's more complicated; you have to jump towards the falling opponent and do a mid-air SCB. To make this easier, start doing uf during the throw animation, and do hcb x 2 from that position as soon as you see she's starting to jump.<br />
<br />
=In-depth Analysis=<br />
==Normal Throws==<br />
<br />
'''b or f + C''' - <br />
<br />
'''b or f + D''' - <br />
<br />
'''b or f or d + C/D in air''' -<br />
<br />
==Normal Moves==<br />
<br />
'''Standing B''' - <br />
<br />
'''Standing C''' -<br />
<br />
'''Standing D''' - <br />
<br />
'''Close C''' - <br />
<br />
'''Close D''' -<br />
<br />
'''Crouching A''' - <br />
<br />
'''Crouching C''' - <br />
<br />
'''Jumping C''' - <br />
<br />
'''Jumping D''' -<br />
<br />
'''Standing CD''' - <br />
<br />
'''Jumping CD''' - <br />
<br />
==Command Normals==<br />
<br />
'''f + B''' - <br />
<br />
'''In air, d + B''' - One of your best runaway tools. If you do it during a backdash, the backdash will be much longer and faster. The earlier you do d + B, the more distance you will cover; do it as b, db + B to get the best results.<br />
<br />
For offensive situations, take into account that if you hit your opponent high you'll bounce back leaving you completely open for a lot of time. To solve this, either cancel it from jumping A (d + B will generally hit down this way) or cancel into a B Phoenix Arrow (do it quick or you'll bounce anyways). It causes a rollable knockdown.<br />
<br />
==Special Moves==<br />
<br />
'''Psycho Ball (qcb + P)''' - A version comes out faster and travels slowly, C is the opposite. You recover fast from the A version, which is ideal to keep an opponent in the corner and punish attempts to escape via air (Psycho Sword / Shining Crystal Bit), roll (Psycho Throw / Far Standing C) or retaliation (Far Standing C). You can also use it to gain positional advantage (running or teleporting) and push your opponent to the corner, the place where Athena becomes more dangerous.<br />
<br />
Another great property of this move is that you can make it unblockable by doing hcf + P or the teleport just when your opponent is about to block it. After a knock down, this means free damage unless your opponent manages to reversal roll.<br />
<br />
'''Phoenix Arrow (In air, qcb + K)''' - B version has much better recovery but deals less damage, D version is the opposite (it finishes the rolling dive with a kick -which doesn't hit low-).<br />
<br />
B is preferred; it works as a good meter builder (by tiger-kneeing it or doing it during a backdash) and does nice chip damage while not being as unsafe as the D version (it does leave you at frame disadvantage, though). Both versions can be comboed from air attacks (A, C, neutral A and C. You can cancel it from d + B too but it won't combo).<br />
<br />
'''Psychic Teleport (qcf + K)''' -<br />
<br />
'''Psycho Sword (f,d,df + P)''' - A version has no invincibility, C version completely invincible on the first hit. Poor damage and startup hitboxes, but the last hitboxes have lots of vertical range and priority, making this move quite useful to keep the opponent zoned. <br />
<br />
Use the A version for zoning, and the C version as a reversal.<br />
<br />
'''Psycho Reflector (hcb + K)''' - B version is a Rugal-style reflector (reflects any non DM projectile except for Yamazaki's counter-projectile), D version is a much slower, unsafer, bigger and meatier version which hits three times and has the same reflective properties.<br />
<br />
The way the reflected projectiles deal damage seems to be random; most of the time they will deal only a tiny bit of damage, but some times they will deal full damage. Full damage seems to be more common if you get a counter hit (when you reflect something somewhat close to your opponent), though.<br />
<br />
Just stick with the A version, C version is too risky and does not offer any real benefits.<br />
<br />
'''Psychic Throw (hcf + P)''' - A command throw that puts the opponent in a 'launched' state. The fall is unrollable, and has invincibility at startup. The move itself only deals damage if you let the enemy touch the floor, which means that you can enter in MAX mode before he lands to get the damage bonus for it (and for the unblockable Psycho Ball that will follow). <br />
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Useful to mix-up, do run-up throws, reversal and to set up unblockable psycho ball loops (more on that in the strategy section). Activates the unblockable projectile bug. Can be comboed from light hits (you have to be at point-blank range, though).<br />
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==Desperation Moves==<br />
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'''Shining Crystal Bit (hcb,hcb + P, ABCD to cancel, qcb + P for Crystal Shoot)''' -<br />
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'''Phoenix Fang Arrow (In air, qcf,qcf + K)''' -<br />
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=Strategy=<br />
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==Unblockable Psycho Ball loops==<br />
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You can set up this after a Psychic Throw. While your opponent is falling down, get around half screen away and do a meaty A Psycho Ball. Then do the unblockable bug with a Psycho Teleport (B if in corner situations, D anywhere else), and Psycho Throw again while the opponent is still in hitstun.<br />
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Unless your rival reversal rolls the Psycho Ball, which is rather difficult (and will still leave him at a disadvantageous position), you can repeat this forever. The timing is tricky (especially when not in the corner), but it's a powerful tool.<br />
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==Stalling==<br />
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Besides her normal runaway tools, Athena has a nice little trick when she's at life advantage and the clock is running out. Triangle jump, and when Athena's body is completely outside of the screen, do a Shining Cristal Bit. After a while do a Crystal Shoot and hold down the punch button to delay it as much as possible. This way you'll be completely invulnerable for around 5~7 seconds, which can win you a match in these situations.<br />
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=Attack Info and Frame Data=<br />
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=== [[KOF98 Athena Hitboxes|Hitboxes]] ===<br />
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{{Template:The King of Fighters '98: The Slugfest}}</div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:F_%2B_B_1a.png&diff=30191File:F + B 1a.png2008-09-24T19:36:52Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:F_%2B_B_1.png&diff=30190File:F + B 1.png2008-09-24T19:36:46Z<p>Gargamuza: uploaded a new version of "Image:F + B 1.png"</p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Cr._Da.png&diff=30189File:Cr. Da.png2008-09-24T19:36:07Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuzahttps://wiki.supercombo.gg/index.php?title=File:Cr._Ca.png&diff=30188File:Cr. Ca.png2008-09-24T19:35:37Z<p>Gargamuza: </p>
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<div></div>Gargamuza